kitekrazy Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 01:02 PM) the last half of 2013 and all of 2014, the Sox were rebuilding and there was a ton of complaining around here. Everyone still holds the record during that time against the manager. I don't think many who are calling for a rebuild truly understand what a rebuild entails. I don't think this organization has the right people in scouting/development to do it. They seem to do fine with pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:02 PM) the last half of 2013 and all of 2014, the Sox were rebuilding and there was a ton of complaining around here. Everyone still holds the record during that time against the manager. I don't think many who are calling for a rebuild truly understand what a rebuild entails. A lot of us are aware of what it is. The problem is, the Cubs are a best case scenario when it comes to rebuilding. They drafted well and were smart with international players. The White Sox have shown consistently that they are completely incapable of drafting positional talent and I would guess their rebuild process would be closer to the Astros' rebuild than to the Cubs' rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:10 PM) A lot of us are aware of what it is. The problem is, the Cubs are a best case scenario when it comes to rebuilding. They drafted well and were smart with international players. The White Sox have shown consistently that they are completely incapable of drafting positional talent and I would guess their rebuild process would be closer to the Astros' rebuild than to the Cubs' rebuild. And spent half a billion dollars in free agent contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) I don't think this organization has the right people in scouting/development to do it. They seem to do fine with pitching. +1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) A lot of us are aware of what it is. The problem is, the Cubs are a best case scenario when it comes to rebuilding. They drafted well and were smart with international players. The White Sox have shown consistently that they are completely incapable of drafting positional talent and I would guess their rebuild process would be closer to the Astros' rebuild than to the Cubs' rebuild. The Cubs like to develop position players and go after pitchers in the market. That seems to be a more expensive way of doing it since mediocre pitchers get over paid in free agency. Then again if you got talent on the farm to replace a position player you trade them for pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:10 PM) A lot of us are aware of what it is. The problem is, the Cubs are a best case scenario when it comes to rebuilding. They drafted well and were smart with international players. The White Sox have shown consistently that they are completely incapable of drafting positional talent and I would guess their rebuild process would be closer to the Astros' rebuild than to the Cubs' rebuild. Until yesterday, Theo had exactly 1 of his Cubs draft picks on the major league active roster. He spent a lot of money and made some great trades. People are calling for Hahn's head after for spending $27 million on Shields and his one awful start. Theo spend twice as much on Edwin Jackson. The Sox can't have a rebuild where they can throw money around like the Cubs. Edited June 9, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Until yesterday, Theo had exactly 1 of his Cubs draft picks on the major league active roster. He spent a lot of money and made some great trades. People are calling for Hahn's head after for spending $27 million on Shields and his one awful start. Theo spend twice as much on Edwin Jackson. The Sox can't have a rebuild where they can throw money around like the Cubs. This is exactly correct. The Cubs have actually done a pretty poor job developing their players aside from Bryant and have covered it up by dropping an ubsurd amount of money on guys. The Sox would have much less of a margin for error on their rebuild, but they would also being selling some of the most valuable contracts in the game with Q, Sale and Eaton and would accrue a massive amount of talent in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) I don't think this organization has the right people in scouting/development to do it. They seem to do fine with pitching. John McDonough did it for the Blackhawks. I just don't see that kind of move on the south side until a change at the very top happens, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Saufley @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) John McDonough did it for the Blackhawks. I just don't see that kind of move on the south side until a change at the very top happens, though. McDonough is a marketing guy. There is no marketing guy in the world right now that will make USCF a destination. And if the Hawks played like the Maple Leafs, McCub would have wished he never left Clark and Addison. Brooks get slammed all the time, but I don't think a team's marketing department tries harder to get people to games. They have tried just about everything they can do to no avail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:02 PM) the last half of 2013 and all of 2014, the Sox were rebuilding and there was a ton of complaining around here. Everyone still holds the record during that time against the manager. I don't think many who are calling for a rebuild truly understand what a rebuild entails. I don't think many people hold 2013-2014 against Ventura.... 2012, 2015, 2016 are a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) I don't think many people hold 2013-2014 against Ventura.... 2012, 2015, 2016 are a different story. 2011 the team wasn't even .500, they lost Buehrle for nothing. Many experts predicted they would finish in the basement. They set a major league record for rookie pitchers used, and won 85 games, yet Ventura sucked. Only White Sox fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I keep hearing how it might not go well and this and that... hey, can it be worse than it is now? Yes I know what it entails and yes, I'm willing to sit through a rebuild with the chance of having a contender in a few years' time. This "approach" hasn't done sh*t in a decade and counting so the status quo is not something I'm down for accepting any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:22 PM) This is exactly correct. The Cubs have actually done a pretty poor job developing their players aside from Bryant and have covered it up by dropping an ubsurd amount of money on guys. The Sox would have much less of a margin for error on their rebuild, but they would also being selling some of the most valuable contracts in the game with Q, Sale and Eaton and would accrue a massive amount of talent in return. "The Cubs have done a pretty poor job developing their players over the last three to four years except their best player and the guy that carried their team for much of last season. And Javier Baez." Come on guys. You're smarter than this. How many more Cubs draft picks have to be good before you give them credit for actual drafting and developing players? Edited June 9, 2016 by Deadpool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Saufley @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) John McDonough did it for the Blackhawks. I just don't see that kind of move on the south side until a change at the very top happens, though. Toews, Keith and Kane did it for the Blackhawks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Articles like that do not work. Most people stop reading articles before the end and I'm sure some people think Jerry finally blasted this wretched team. I do agree with the writer's premise. It would make me feel much better as a fan if he called out these horrible, underachieving ballplayers and coaching staff. Maybe after what truly will be an embarrassment. Getting swept at home by an equally awful, flawed KC team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 04:19 PM) No it's not and that would be the worst way to run a team. In a way they are. They can decide to show up or not, which they are already deciding to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The talk of "public humiliation" .... I'm not even sure what you guys are talking about? Are you talking about roasting someone in the media? Have you guys ever been to a major division 1 practice or professional practice (I've been to both)? Have you ever watched "Hard Knocks?" People get called out in front of people constantly... every day, every hour. I've heard things a coach has said to a college kid that the kid's mother might have shot the coach (and this is front of people watching). This coach was tremendously successful btw. I'm not saying this is the best way, nor am I saying it has anything to do with Ventura. Because I think our players play like they are too stressed out - not that Ventura doesn't yell at them or whatever. I don't even know what he does. But this entire talk of "Public Humilation" I'm not really sure what you guys are talking about. Sometimes being called out is THE ONLY WAY that some people will wake the F*** up. Playing sports my entire life I knew ALOT of guys that fit that bill. Some people it doesn't work - they go into a shell. But maybe I'm confused by what you guys meant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) Toews, Keith and Kane did it for the Blackhawks. Seriously. If anything, Dale Tallon did it for the Blackhawks. I swear people need to stop bringing up the Hawks in baseball discussions. They have so little in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) "The Cubs have done a pretty poor job developing their players over the last three to four years except their best player and the guy that carried their team for much of last season. And Javier Baez." Come on guys. You're smarter than this. How many more Cubs draft picks have to be good before you give them credit for actual drafting and developing players? Bryant was the only guy on the Cubs roster 2 days ago the amazing Theo drafted. Schwarber looks like a good pick, but he didn't rebuild the team through the draft. He signed a bunch of free agents and made some great trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) Bryant was the only guy on the Cubs roster 2 days ago the amazing Theo drafted. Schwarber looks like a good pick, but he didn't rebuild the team through the draft. He signed a bunch of free agents and made some great trades. So my point stands. Dick Allen being Dick Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) Bryant was the only guy on the Cubs roster 2 days ago the amazing Theo drafted. Schwarber looks like a good pick, but he didn't rebuild the team through the draft. He signed a bunch of free agents and made some great trades. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 08:34 PM) 2011 the team wasn't even .500, they lost Buehrle for nothing. Many experts predicted they would finish in the basement. They set a major league record for rookie pitchers used, and won 85 games, yet Ventura sucked. Only White Sox fans. No I would beg to differ. I would say only the White Sox would allow this state of affairs to continue. In a hidebound and stubborn manner I might add. Many baseball fans who have no rooting interest whatsoever in the Chicago White Sox can see what a shipwreck this franchise is currently. Of course it's not all on Robin, almost everything is wrong at this point. However in no reality is he a good manager no matter how many Joe Torre references some might make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Baez looks to be at least decent, but he's a Hendry pick. Schwarber looked good, but he couldn't play in the NL before and he sure as hell wont be able to play in the NL going forward. The best players on the Cubs this year have been Zobrist and Fowler...we'll see how well that sustains itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:51 PM) So my point stands. Dick Allen being Dick Allen. No, not really. Theo deserves credit for lots of things, most notably all the trade robberies they've pulled off. The role of drafting in their success is overstated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (shysocks @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:54 PM) No, not really. Theo deserves credit for lots of things, most notably all the trade robberies they've pulled off. The role of drafting in their success is overstated. Except that whole "best player" thing. And back on topic, I would be completely satisfied with a Houston Astros type rebuild. Yeah, it would suck, but unlike this garbage team, we would know the direction we're trying to go. Edited June 9, 2016 by Deadpool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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