Over the past year Q has been the best pitcher in the AL (using WAR)

I agree we should trade Q. The Sox simply cannot score runs for him, so be merciful and trade him for 4 very good prospects. It's not working out cause the Sox won't play ball the days he pitches. They just won't.

My guess is that the return from Sale v. the value of sale would exceed the return for Q v. the value of Q.

Edited June 22, 20169 yr by GreenSox

If you trade Sale and/or Q you better get a kings ransom for both or don't deal them. All for dealing them though.

Over the past year Q has been the best pitcher in the AL (using WAR)

 

But he doesn't get wins you're wrong.

But he doesn't get wins you're wrong.

Does walk of shame....

 

 

....for being a white sox fan

If you trade Sale and/or Q you better get a kings ransom for both or don't deal them. All for dealing them though.

 

 

But he doesn't get wins you're wrong.

 

Apparently he is a pirate, because he leads the league in AR, (no W)

But he doesn't get wins you're wrong.

Yes, because wins don't matter in baseball. The teams with the highest WAR make the playoffs.

Edited June 22, 20169 yr by ptatc

Yes, because wins don't matter in baseball. The teams with the highest WAR make the playoffs.

 

Wins matter in the standings, not so much in a pitchers record. But you can go ahead and think that Quintana is as good as his W-L record indicates

Yes, because wins don't matter in baseball. The teams with the highest WAR make the playoffs.

 

team wins =/= individual pitcher wins.

team wins =/= individual pitcher wins.

So teams should depend on lesser talented middle relief pitchers for individual wins? That's how I would build a successful team.

 

I'll never be convinced that wins are meaningless for starting pitchers.

So teams should depend on lesser talented middle relief pitchers for individual wins? That's how I would build a successful team.

 

I'll never be convinced that wins are meaningless for starting pitchers.

 

 

Do you think Jose Quintana has been the bets pitcher in the AL this year? Because most metrics say that he has been. He'd by my CY Young leader currently but nobody cares what I think. I know that the guy has a 2.60 FIP but I have absolutely no idea what his W/L record is. Don't care either.

Do you think Jose Quintana has been the bets pitcher in the AL this year? Because most metrics say that he has been. He'd by my CY Young leader currently but nobody cares what I think. I know that the guy has a 2.60 FIP but I have absolutely no idea what his W/L record is. Don't care either.

You should care. Is part of the reason he is the best pitcher by the metrics due to his only pitching 5 to 6 innings a game? This in turn puts his team at a big disadvantage to put lesser talented pitchers in the game, put more stress on the bullpen and cause his team to lose more games because the more talented pitcher has less of an effect on the outcome of the game.

 

Many people talk about having better hitters hit more often by hitting higher in the order. wouldn't this same idea apply to the pitcher? wouldn't you want the better pitchers to pitch deeper into the game and have more of an effect on the outcome?

 

This line of thinking is one reason why starting pitchers are pitching less and IMHO are actually getting injured more. They are burning themselves out by using all stressful pitches.

Edited June 22, 20169 yr by ptatc

You should care. Is part of the reason he is the best pitcher by the metrics due to his only pitching 5 to 6 innings a game? This in turn puts his team at a big disadvantage to put lesser talented pitchers in the game, put more stress on the bullpen and cause his team to lose more games because the more talented pitcher has less of an effect on the outcome of the game.

 

Many people talk about having better hitters hit more often by hitting higher in the order. wouldn't this same idea apply to the pitcher? wouldn't you want the better pitchers to pitch deeper into the game and have more of an effect on the outcome?

 

This line of thinking is one reason why starting pitchers are pitching less and IMHO are actually getting injured more. They are burning themselves out by using all stressful pitches.

 

 

If they scored runs in his starts, he'd be like 11-3 and nobody would think this.

Apparently he is a pirate, because he leads the league in AR, (no W)

 

You should care. Is part of the reason he is the best pitcher by the metrics due to his only pitching 5 to 6 innings a game? This in turn puts his team at a big disadvantage to put lesser talented pitchers in the game, put more stress on the bullpen and cause his team to lose more games because the more talented pitcher has less of an effect on the outcome of the game.

 

Do you watch the games? His starts?

If they scored runs in his starts, he'd be like 11-3 and nobody would think this.

True. But he is becoming for being such an outlier in this category that he is proving to be an exception. Also, if he pitched deeper into games he may have some of those wins.

Do you watch the games? His starts?

Yes.

You should care. Is part of the reason he is the best pitcher by the metrics due to his only pitching 5 to 6 innings a game? This in turn puts his team at a big disadvantage to put lesser talented pitchers in the game, put more stress on the bullpen and cause his team to lose more games because the more talented pitcher has less of an effect on the outcome of the game.

 

Many people talk about having better hitters hit more often by hitting higher in the order. wouldn't this same idea apply to the pitcher? wouldn't you want the better pitchers to pitch deeper into the game and have more of an effect on the outcome?

 

This line of thinking is one reason why starting pitchers are pitching less and IMHO are actually getting injured more. They are burning themselves out by using all stressful pitches.

Quintana is averaging the same number of innings per start as Arrieta and Strasburg this year (6.6 innings per start), he has a lower ERA (by 0.27) than Strasburg yet Strasburg is 10-0 and Quintana is 5-7. That alone should tell how meaningless W-L record is. He's going deep enough into games, that's not the problem.

 

He's 12th in the AL in IP/Start, and 0.1 of an inning/start from being 6th. The idea that he doesn't go deep enough is a complete exaggeration.

Edited June 22, 20169 yr by OmarComing25

Yes.

 

So tell me why a guy like Jason Hammel can get 7 wins and he barely averages 6 innings a start.

True. But he is becoming for being such an outlier in this category that he is proving to be an exception. Also, if he pitched deeper into games he may have some of those wins.

So Quintana's mere presence on the mound causes his teammates to score less for him than the other pitchers on the team? It's certainly a bizarre trend, especially with the turnover on the offense the last few years, but to blame Quintana for it is just silly.

So tell me why a guy like Jason Hammel can get 7 wins and he barely averages 6 innings a start.

Anything is possible. This is why you need to look at everything and not discount the wins. I haven't followed Hammel's games as I don't follow the Cubs. Maybe he is winning so many and pitching awful because of a great offense.

 

My only point is that people who totally dismiss wins are wrong. You need to factor them in. They aren't the only variable in the equation but should be included in the equation.

Anything is possible. This is why you need to look at everything and not discount the wins. I haven't followed Hammel's games as I don't follow the Cubs. Maybe he is winning so many and pitching awful because of a great offense.

 

My only point is that people who totally dismiss wins are wrong. You need to factor them in. They aren't the only variable in the equation but should be included in the equation.

The problem is that the variable you're criticizing Quintana for isn't even true.

So Quintana's mere presence on the mound causes his teammates to score less for him than the other pitchers on the team? It's certainly a bizarre trend, especially with the turnover on the offense the last few years, but to blame Quintana for it is just silly.

I'm not blaming him for it. However, he could be contributing to the losses by not being in the game and giving the offense a chance to score when he is pitching.

 

As stated in the other post I made, my only point is that wins shouldn't be ignored. They do play a part in the effectiveness of a starting pitcher.

Anything is possible. This is why you need to look at everything and not discount the wins. I haven't followed Hammel's games as I don't follow the Cubs. Maybe he is winning so many and pitching awful because of a great offense.

 

You are totally wrong about this, but you are stubborn. I'll let the other guys have at it. I'm going to bed. I mean you just mentioned offense which is what others were already saying. But hey... anything is possible.

The problem is that the variable you're criticizing Quintana for isn't even true.

It may be. My comment was about the "wins don't matter." He has had a great year and could be the best pitcher but the lack of wins does need to be considered.