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QUOTE (JoshPR @ May 30, 2016 -> 08:03 PM) Would love to see what half the people here can do managing. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy I've been a baseball fan for almost 60 years and I can't remember a manager quite so inept as Robin Ventura. That is a strong statement in that I remember both Don Gutteridge and Terry Bevington. My opinion on the matter is hardly unique.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ May 29, 2016 -> 11:02 PM) Jason Coats Danny Hayes Nick Delmonico Jake Peter Tim Anderson has certainly had an excellent 2nd month in AAA. Fulmer has been bad. He also suffers from idiotic fans/sports media unfairly comparing him to Chris Sale/Carlos Rodon for no sane reason. It's also just 2 months into the season. Coats is getting a little old for a prospect. He's having a decent year at Charlotte. Danny Hayes? Are you kidding me? Nick Delmonico sort of came from out of nowhere this year. He's 2 for 17 since his promotion to Charlotte. Jake Peter is doing OK at Birmingham as of now. Seriously overall this is a very underwhelming list. The Sox farm system for the most part is a barren wasteland.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 29, 2016 -> 09:22 PM) I miss this guy https://mobile.twitter.com/BryanDolgin/stat...027165443620864 I do too. I really enjoyed his post game shows during the 05 season. Much better than Rongey.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ May 28, 2016 -> 07:55 PM) I think the problem with Rodon is that his delivery isn't repeatable; it seems as if his follow through is slightly different after every pitch, which then leads to control issues. I think that is a very good observation. So fix him already Coop.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ May 28, 2016 -> 04:19 PM) There are a lot of guys having good years. Not all good prospects are drafted in top 3 rounds. Caveaat, of course, is that I only look at stats, which isn't real scouting. Sox still punt too many draft picks with relief pitchers, etc. Certainly some hitters in Charlotte worthy of trying out on the southside. I am politely asking who?

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ May 26, 2016 -> 12:16 AM) Good managers set the tone, make solid baseball decisions and put the players they have in the BEST positions to win games. That's how a manager is important. He is not the be-all / end-all but a good manager is damn valuable. Mark I agree. You could give Robin the 1998 Yanks and he'd still be a lousy manager. I mean if talent wills all then why even have a manager? I don't understand that mindset at all.

Whatever happened to the quaint pre saber era idea that your #2 hitter should be good at putting bat on ball and bad at striking out?

I enjoyed the Hawk/Plesac pairing in the booth. Plesac gave commentary just as astutely as Stone minus the attitude. FWIW I like Stone. Plesac even managed to openly disagree with Hawk a time or two without setting him off. There is very little objectivity where Hawk is concerned. Fans seem to love him or hate him (oh how some of you hate him) without any balance whatsoever. As for Jason I just wish he would go easier on the cutesy jokes. Last night he even seemed to go over the line with Stone in a bad joke referencing Duane Kuiper. The ensuing silence was deafening. Spare me the hipster and pop culture comments. Yes I'd rather hear yet another story about Yaz than something about some obscure 1990s band. I will say that he does have a better voice with a bit more pizzazz than his modern day blow dried competition. So I do watch and listen to the Sox TV announcers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 17, 2016 -> 03:38 PM) LOL, so you aren't saying that the difference is Harry Caray, but you go on and make this whole paragraph about Caray being the difference. Can we also not pretend that with TribCo owning both the Cubs and WGN, that what you are imagining was even possible? The irony of course being that the Cubs eventually followed to CSN, having lost none of their fan base, and are about to try to create their own network, and still won't lose any of their fan base. The Cubs became an interstellar phenomenon during the Trib and Co years. The popularity they have in Chicagoland, and the rest of the country is not going to suddenly go away. Especially since now they are actually good and appear to be stacked for years on end. The Sox are going to have to be perennial contenders just to stay modestly relevant in their own home town. The Cubs have decisively won the popularity battle and the ineptness of Sox ownership had no small part in this.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ May 15, 2016 -> 06:21 PM) This post assumes that absolutely everything that happened in Chicago baseball had to do with Harry Caray, which could not be further from the truth. Of course it didn't but to say that Harry didn't help keep interest in the team a lot higher than it would have been is simply not accurate. In particular the team of Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall kept a lot of us fans interested enough to watch and listen on a regular basis. The Sox had winning seasons in 72 and 77 and for the most part were a dreadful team in the other years Harry was in the booth. Harry was an institution, a lightning rod, some didn't like him but tuned in anyway to see what outrageous thing he might say. More than anything Harry was a salesman. He could sell a baseball game or a brand of beer. His style of broadcasting would never fly today in our milquetoast PC world. He also had his faults which included a sometimes cruel streak, just like Hawk. Still, before he was corporately neutralized by the Cubs and then succumbed to health issues, he was one of the best baseball broadcasters in the history of the game, bar none. He did contribute to increased interest and attendance and the Sox did lose the battle with the Cubs after the Tribune company bought the lovable north siders. I tilt somewhat but not totally to Thad Bosley's point of view on this matter. I remember that era very well.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 14, 2016 -> 04:51 PM) Plezac was f***ing awesome last light! Wow. What a great blend of saber analysis with insight from his playing days. I don't know what your take is but I heard an announcer that isn't blindly obedient to the religion of saber. Both he and Hawk talked about the Saber contention that strikeouts don't matter, an out is an out, and then compared that to the Royals approach of putting the ball in play. Plesac also mentioned Moneyball and the cult of Billy Beane. He said it wasn't OBP it was three top of the line starting pitchers. He said that having top notch pitching is more important than saber this and saber that. For this and a variety of other reasons I thoroughly enjoyed listening to Hawk and Dan last night. So much nicer than the cutesy duo of Jason Benetti and Steve Stone, and I actually like Stone. QUOTE (miracleon35th @ May 13, 2016 -> 04:36 AM) I don't get most of the criticism of Hawk and I find most of it to be uncalled for or just plain pathetic. By the way, I have to discount any criticism that Hawk is a "homer" because so much of that comes from cubfans. Perhaps those who are old enough to remember Harry at Comiskey never tired of hearing "Holy Cow" for a decade followed by another ten years of it at Wrigley. Now Harry Caray's memory, the horn rimmed glasses, his restaurants and his 7th inning stretch call (which he did for 10 years at Comiskey) are part of cub tradition and remembered fondly by older Sox fans.. I wonder which announcer Hawk's critics believe has been as good or better than Hawk" Maybe Vin Scully, Harry Kalas, or one of the other all time greats? Baseball is a game of tradition so trashing someone who is a big part of White Sox tradition is something that I find to be curious. Anyone who does not understand that Hawk went down to see Frazier because Hawk was personally concerned (as opposed to going down there because no beat reporter was there) is missing the point. Hawk loves the team that he has been loyal to for decades and loves the players. He was one himself and knows what it is like to be injured on the field and what a serious injury to a key player could mean to this team. I think Hawk is doing the right thing by cutting down on games until another full-time announcer is decided upon. My own opinion is that the new play-by-play person should not be Jason Benetti. Benetti has been just awful and I am being generous because he is a nice young man. I am going to start putting on the radio so I do not have to listen to his trite nonsense, his sophomoric questions and his lame attempt at being the straight man comic in his back and forth with Stone. When Hawk indicates he wants to retire, I hope the Sox start to audition guest announcers to take over play by play full time after Hawk retires. Although Dan Plesac may not be a candidate, it will be very interesting to hear Plesac and Harrelson in the booth at Yankee stadium this weekend. I completely agree on all counts. I think the major percentage of Sox fans are rooting for Jason Benetti a young man who is a Sox fan and has overcome so much in his life. I want to say I like him but have to agree with your assessment. I really enjoyed Plesac and Harrelson last night.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 9, 2016 -> 04:39 AM) Heh, no quicker way to show your ass than using the word nerd as a pejorative term these days. So glad we've moved beyond that machismo bulls***. There's way too much PC in life today. You can't say this and you can't say that. Despite my advancing age I have my thick glasses, round baby face which even today make me look like ... a nerd. Years ago a good friend's wife when asked to describe me said "Woody Allen with muscles." Of course I like my own nerdy schtick better than Jason Benetti's. I will grant you his intellect and dry wit but man he overdoes it at times. He's going to be around a long time so I'm sure his approach will change a bit here and there. However, the voice and the personality are pretty much etched in stone.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 6, 2016 -> 12:30 AM) Why??? This thread has over 10 pages so a lot of fans have an opinion on it. Isn't that the point of a message board?? Being a long time White Sox diehard, I do find it interesting. Since I live over 1,200 miles away I rarely see a Sox game live. So I am always wondering what happened to the White Sox fan base. I'll try since I'm ancient and love the subject of history. About five decades ago Bill Veeck said that all things being equal Chicago would normally be partial to the Cubs. This was at the tail end of the go go era, in which the Sox had 17 straight winning seasons, beat the Cubs in attendance all but one of those years, and ruled the sports pages. Sports writers like John Carmichael, Warren Brown and Bill Gleason made sure the Sox got strong if not always uncritical press. That began to change after 1967. The Sox quit winning and were no longer on WGN. Coincidentally the Cubs began a 6 season streak of winning which included the epic collapse of 1969. Writers like Rick Talley of the old Chicago Today and others were openly fawning towards the Cubs and correspondingly hostile to the Chicago White Sox. Starting in 1984 the tide really began to change and I attribute that to the Tribune Company buying the Cubs in 1981. Everything was Cubs Cubs Cubs and little kids in places like Enid, Oklahoma and Bowling Green, Kentucky would come home from school and finds the Cubs game on TV. This is when the Sox really lost the popularity battle not only on their home ground but nationally as well. The changing demographics of the Chicago area favored the Cubs too. Additionally places like NW Indiana and SW Michigan, that were definitely Sox territory in the go go era no longer were. I know this is an extremely capsulized look at the issue but the Cubs have decisively won on the popularity front. When is the last year the Sox beat the Cubs in attendance? The Cubs are far more popular now, they can get 3 million or so to come to the park in years that they stink. The Chicago area is not the population and jobs mecca it once was and I don't think that it's etched in stone that the Sox will always and forever remain in Chicago.

QUOTE (AJUribe @ May 6, 2016 -> 03:55 AM) Gave Jason a chance, l'm sorry but he sucks. I turn on music now when he announces. Total nerd, makes lame jokes, only positive is stone gives more insight. This certainly won't be popular but I concur. I would also add that although he might not quite be khaki pants talking, he certainly is in the mold of the stereotypical "broadcasting school" voice. In fairness to Jason, I have the MLB package and I find most modern day baseball announcers very forgettable.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ May 1, 2016 -> 11:45 PM) Before my time, but didn't the entire team get injured that year? In 1972 the White Sox gave the A's a run for their money before fading late. They did it without Bill Melton, who was lost for the season in June. Dick Allen was MVP, Chuck Tanner was manager of the year and hopes were sky high for the 1973 season. The Sox shot out of the gate and on June 1 were 27-16 and in 1st by 3 games. Then everything began to fall apart. Dick Allen broke a leg and Ken Henderson tore up his knee, both lost for the year. Carlos May, Bill Melton and Pat Kelly were all out for extended periods. Things went from bad to worse and the team ended up 77-85.

QUOTE (harkness @ Apr 19, 2016 -> 06:19 PM) What's amusing... and it can be found in many places in life -but message boards are great for seeing this in action. Optimism somehow equates to rational thought (this is why pyramid scams work- by catering to this false logic). Rational thought exists in pessimism and optimism - but most importantly in realism. Also this "mature" act of belittling those who question or complain is really often nothing more than a passive aggressive act of venting ones own frustration about losing. I agree.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Mar 29, 2016 -> 10:22 PM) Hawk is a character. Virtually all other broadcasters in baseball are pointless, worthless, flavorless and devoid of personality. They suck. They're grown in a laboratory in Orlando. They're if khaki pants could talk. They are audience-tested by the corporation. They are not people. They are not interesting. They suck. Cubs are unwatchable. You can dislike some of what Hawk does, and I'll agree it gets way worse when the team sucks (3 straight seasons). But good god, give me anyone with a personality over the Len Kasper/Chip Careys of the world. If they gave reps here I'd give you as many as I could.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 17, 2014 -> 07:33 PM) No one has any more questions, wite. Let's argue about something! Oh I have many questions but I'm down to my last baseball message board and would like to stay on this one. I have a long love affair with data going back to early childhood. I've read Bill James since before the Total Baseball Days. I have so many problems with sabermetrics I'd hardly know where to begin. You know if you are good at arithmetic it is relatively easy to compute BA, FA, ERA, winning Pct. etc and etc. You can argue what it means or how valid each stat is but there is no alchemic formula to it. Not so with WAR and all the variations that are constantly readjusted according to I'm just not sure what. It's not going to go away. I expect that someday in the maybe not too distant future baseball awards will be given on the basis of the latest computation of WAR. I wouldn't even be surprised if the standings are adjusted to be in perfect harmony with Pythagorean wins. The Indians are 2005 world champs. It's not that I'm a hidebound old fart who resists every change in life. I am alive to today because of a surgery first initiated in the 1970s and perfected when I needed it 14 years ago this month. So no, I'm hardly against change and innovation. I even would have voted for King Felix the year he won his Cy Young Award, and probably would have voted for Mike Trout for MVP this past season. I know its not good enough. Like religion you're either a believer or a blashphemer. I was going to leave this alone but I've read and reread the thread and like I said I've actually studied this.

QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Jan 19, 2014 -> 12:52 AM) Stay away from Jack in the Box, El Pollo Loco, In and Out Burger, and Del Taco unless you have easy and immediate bathroom access. Do NOT go to Tuscon. Oh, and most importantly : Avoid Dodger fans, they are drunk, drugged out, gang/cartel members who will cause you problems if you give them attention. 1. I can see why you don't like the fast food places you mentioned but I doubt the average person will have that extreme a body reaction to the food. 2. Why don't you like Tucson? I've been there a time or two, find it beautiful and accommodating and we are considering relocating there some day. 3. A sub culture of Dodger fans are dangerous indeed. They can take extreme offense to your rooting against their team. You can get a savage beating or worse. It's unfortunate because most Dodger fans are no better or worse than any other team's fans. I consider a game at Dodger Stadium a treat. Spend the money on the better seats would be my advice.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Feb 11, 2014 -> 07:54 PM) But apparently not Gordon Beckham...fringe defense at 2B at best? Non-tender? Ouch Keith. You'll never find less consensus than in rating baseball players defensively. Yes Gordon Beckham has not lived up to expectations but no he is not a fringe defender. I'm not saying he is a Bobby Grich or a Roberto Alomar, but he is not fringe either.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 05:20 AM) Yes, a person should be able to shout their opinion from the mountain tops... And then cry like a little b**** when anyone does it to them. Makes perfect sense to me. I didn't see it as crying. I think his point (about the poster who called him out) was quite valid.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 22, 2013 -> 07:48 PM) Nellie Fox was pretty overrated though, wasn't he? I mean, just looking at his numbers, he was more of a "good player for a long time" than a HOFer. A few good seasons with the stick but overall a below league average hitter for his career that added a ton of defensive value. EDIT: Luis Aparicio looks like the same thing but more extreme -- even better defender and a much worse hitter. Another very valuable player but not a HOFer IMO. Now, Luke Appling, on the other hand, looks like a stud. Elite D on top of a career 115 wRC+ out of a SS. Damn. Did you ever see them play? Defensively they sure beat the hell out of Alexi and Beckham and offensively much better than you would think "just by looking at the numbers." In fact IIRC Bill James once wrote an article giving support to the awarding of the MVP to Nellie Fox in 1959. I have spent countless hours on the newer stats and am not a devotee of saber. I made my original post because the newer stats get more traction and standing among fans with each passing year, and Biggio's JAWS and WAR seem to indicate that he should not be summarily dismissed for HOF consideration.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Nov 22, 2013 -> 06:13 PM) The only thing Biggio has going for him as far as HOF (and I do think he should be in) is the counting stats. They look at much more than that. Biggio never really came close to winning an MVP, never was a dominant player or near being the best in the league and to be honest I really never looked at Biggio as being a HOFer using the eye test. When you watched Frank play, you knew you were watching one of the greatest hitters to ever play. I never had that kind of feeling with Biggio. If you're into the newer stats Biggio's JAWS is 53.3, with the average HOFer 2B man at 57.0. His JAWS beats 10 other HOF 2B men including Nellie Fox. I completely agree with your assessment of the hitter Frank Thomas.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Aug 29, 2013 -> 03:22 AM) Funny enough, he actually has a negative WAR this season, because defensive metric hate him. I'm guess before the week is over he will be back to 0.0 though. There was a major reworking of how DWAR was calculated a year or so ago. The same was done with pitching WAR, not once but twice. It has resulted in a shuffling and reshuffling of all time rankings. It reminds me of Winston Smith and the Ministry of Truth, this rewrite of baseball history.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Aug 16, 2013 -> 05:07 AM) I hated Singleton doing games, but I really liked him in the studio doing analysis with ESPN. Yes as an analyst he's pretty good. I was happy for him landing that gig because he was actually a favorite of mine when he played. He was just terrible at announcing.