soxforlife05

I'm fine with collecting lotto tickets if we get them for basically nothing.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 10:10 PM) It's probably a bad sign that I liked this deal way more than the Sale and Eaton deals. Cause I can be WRONG a lot. Just ask my wallet on the few excursions I make to Vegas. The reason I liked it is I do undervalue Q a bit. He was rather horses*** the first eight weeks of the season. I know we made excuses on here for him, errors, etc., some balls fell in, ducksnorts or whatever. But until he turned into the old Q with the 10 Ks and I think he was dominant one other recent game, Q was looking like just an OK pitcher. Remember the speculation that teams weren't at all convinced he was even a contender to be staff ace. Don't get me wrong. I do like Q, but ... Anyhow, I watched tape on Eloy and I liked the eye test (my eye test love has been wrong before). And even though prospect ratings are kinda bogus, I can fall for them as well and if Cease is the Cubs' No. 2 prospect behind Eloy, that's a team's 1-2 prospects for a very good, but not great pitcher. Anyhow, this is all wait and see. I will never change my opinion on prospects. They bust a lot. Just look at the list of Sox prospects that have busted that somebody put on one of these threads. I really don't know what you wanted to get for Q. Now if you wanted to simply keep him, I can accept that. But from everything we were reading, teams weren't lining up to give a ton of great prospects for Q. Have a feeling he pitched bad because he was in the rumor mill for 6-7 months. Some guys struggle with knowing they are going to be going to some unknown team and location when they have been settled in a long time with one team at the major league level. I'd bet we could've got Jimenez, Happ, and Cease before the season. Jimenez has a good frame just needs to fill it out. I can see him being a big power hitter in the mold of a Nelson Cruz/Stanton if he can hit the weight room more and eat. Up to him to make it happen.

QUOTE (cornball @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 07:50 PM) I completely disagree. In 2 -3 years would be a great time to sign a front loaded contract for a young superstar like Harper or Trout. Depending how it is structured it shouldn't impact future payroll. This seems to be in line with JR's history as well. They won't want to play here. And yes it will impact the payroll. Those signings rarely end up being worth their contract anyway. Only teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers can absorb 9 figure screw ups. Until we get legit ownership of this team I say no.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 07:44 PM) Devers 4-4 2b and HR in AAA debut Don't remind me. Was hell bent on wanting this guy in any deal with the Red Sox. Figures.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 10:42 PM) Back up the truck and drop off robertson/ swarzak / tommy boy for an absolute haul Soto and Kieboom. Done.

Rather it be Burdi than Kopech if we are going to get unlucky. Please not both.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 06:43 PM) Remember how many pitchers the team that won the world series last year developed out of their system? They found a workaround. Give me a stellar 1-5, trade 1 or 2 of those pitchers if things go really well, and then go sign Bryce Harper or Mike Trout with the fact you have a $6 million pricetag on your starting rotation for 3 years. Basically, give me as many good players as we can find for the next year+ and worry about the rest later. This team will never sign a Harper, Trout, or Machado. I actually hope they don't as long as current ownership is in place because that will leave the team with their hands tied due to payroll constraints for a decade.

Someone should end up taking him for a respectable prospect. Probably lower minors with some upside. Which would definitely be my preference over a high floor/lower ceiling high minors guy that we got in Tilson for Duke.

Get Chavis and be done with it. On to the next. Groome would be weird. I don't understand why we are stockpiling so many pitchers when we can't develop positional talent from the middle rounds. I would be ok with either player though.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 10:32 AM) I don't like playing the prospect game but since the Sox are doing so, you probably are over-criticizing the deal. The rating game can be stupid but Eloy is the No. 5 player in baseball and films of him are promising as he hits some bombs. At 6-4 he looks the part of slugger. Cease is the Cubs' No. 1 pitching prospect. If you want to go the prospect route, you probably can't argue with this one on paper. Eloy in theory could be playing for the Sox a long time, at least til he hits the big payday in free agency. Also don't forget if you throw out the recent dominance of Q, he's been hit a bit this season. I expect him to be great for the Cubs the rest of the year and I think he will wake them up, but you don't know. I'm wait and see on the prospect game, but on paper you get a great hitting prospect in Eloy and a team's No. 1 pitching prospect. Most of the fans on here are committed to a rebuild, not sure if you are or not, but if you want a rebuild, I don't think you could probably ask for more. That third prospect the Sox got has 14 home runs this year. Not bad for a throw in. Unfortunately it's wait and see. Sox aren't interested in acquiring major league ready guys right now. So it's add two more (on paper) blue chip prospects and see what happens. I love Q but it's possible you are over-valuing him as well. When he was having all those mediocre starts earlier in the season and the high ERA, he didn't exactly look overwhelmingly good. Sox have several players now projected to take over certain positions in the next few years. I can see why you hate the deal but there's no way to positively grade it right now. On paper, the Sox 3 major trades all brought future stars to the team. How is it possible to overvalue a front of the rotation starter on the best non pre-arb deal in baseball? Left handed, no serious injury history, late bloomer/less mileage on the arm, good teammate? That is a priceless asset. Did Buehrle look dominant all the time throughout his career? Nope. LF is the easiest position to fill on the entire lineup. He doesn't play a premium position. If he's not a Stanton like player its a fail. FWIW Stanton was putting up 30-40 HR/yr seasons in A ball. He's also very far away from the majors. A ball teams don't even do scouting reports. I don't hate getting Jimenez but he's far from proven. Doesn't look like a dominant player to me yet. Needs to add some size and strength and then we can talk about 40 HR. Cease had TJS. You don't want pitchers with an injury history headlining these deals and he's another low minors guy to boot. We already have another TJS starter in Giolito but at least we got ML ready arm in Lopez and a good low minors arm in Dunning. I'd argue we got more for Eaton.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 01:55 AM) I'm with you 1000% on hating the Shields move... I was one of the most vocal about it. We just don't see eye to eye on this deal. Two fingers. Jimenez a good starting point just don't like the rest of the deal. If he isn't a big time player this deal is an epic fail imo. It's underwhelming even in comparison to the Sale deal where I don't think we got as much as we should have. With Sale I would have tried to sweeten the deal with something like Sale + Jones for Moncada, Devers, Kopech. Quality over quantity. Jones was expendable and was an attractive add for a contender in the offseason. Point being by himself he's not going to bring a Devers back so if that puts us over the top why not just do it? Not many opportunities to add prospects like that. I don't trust our evaluation of middle/lower tier prospects yet. Not enough of a track record for me to trust they can pick diamonds in the rough like the best organizations can. They have been too bad at that for too long. They can let their results do the talking. To their credit - Quintana and possibly Delmonico could qualify. We will see.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 01:33 AM) A top 50 - 65 league wide prospect with the potential to be a top of the rotation SP is "filler"? Potential. The key word there. And that guy is a single A pitcher you're talking about. For an ace caliber starter on one of the best deals in baseball for years to come. Don't like the deal. For the record - I hated the Shields deal with a passion, was ok with/mildly disappointed with no Devers inclusion in Sale deal, loved the Eaton deal, disappointed with this one. Cease already had Tommy John too. Holy s*** I like this deal less and less. Cubs robbed us I can't believe it.

Not enough for gift wrapping the Cubs another World Series. Would have liked to see another top prospect rather than 3 fillers. Quality over quantity. Disappointed with the return. Would have rather kept Q until we saw what we have with the newest additions at the big league level before accepting this kind of return. I'm much more disappointed with this one than the returns for Sale or Eaton. Was thrilled with the Eaton return and mildly disappointed we couldn't pull Devers for Sale but thought his deal was just ok. Especially if you are giving him to the Cubs you've got to get a better deal than this.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 26, 2017 -> 08:36 PM) Uh oh. Avi is 0-for-3 after a 1-for-12 series vs the As. Ah baseball is such an unforgiving sport. that's 1-for-15. Sell high while you still can Hahn

Kelly would be a great get in a package for Avi.

If we get a good offer consistent with what a player of his level of production this season would return he is gone in a heartbeat if I'm the GM. Focus on moving guys like Avi, Robertson, Swarzak, etc and try to deal Q again in the offseason.

If they got a good offer he would've been gone. The end. What is up with the hysterics.

He's had a lot of good starts this year not sure I understand the sky is falling sentiment. Yes he's had some really bad ones to go along with that but to me that points to inconsistent mechanics, tipping pitches, etc. If I'm Hahn I am trying to extend an additional 2 years before his option years kick in. He can be a valuable piece in a stacked rotation when our window opens.

Welcome to rebuilding people jeez. Tack on a few more cheap years to the end of Q's deal this season if you can and watch him rebound next year.

Whatever its fine. Extend a few more years on the back end of his deal if you can this year and we are good to go for the next window. He'll turn it around.

Holland and Swarzak are worth something. Organization ranked 10-15 prospects can be had for them. Teams are hesitant to deal their top prospects so this works in our favor for everyone but Q who I would be fine with keeping.

Someone tell the 2005 White Sox not to bunt.

Perfect example today why we should not be wasting starts on Covey and Pelfrey. As I have previously said.

I think Delmonico would get a shot in the outfield first. Leury has played well enough to keep getting CF starts.

I'd say Fernando Rodney is a shoe in