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wrathofhahn

Did the Whitesox make a mistake not forcing a decision?

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For months the white sox offer sat out there. Did the white sox make a mistake by not walking away sooner and forcing a decision?

To me that seemed sort of the biggest misstep of all.

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Huge mistake. They let Machado and lazano have all the leverage while they whimpered in the corner hoping to get chosen

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No, because they weren't going to pay market rate so it didn't matter.

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

No, because they weren't going to pay market rate so it didn't matter.

Well until Feb we had the highest offer. I don't know why we kept it on the table forever hoping to get choosen.

If it was never going to be good enough figure that out early and move on to other options. Now we've wasted practically the entire offseason on machado.

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I said this 10x on the boards. The Sox NEEDED to overpay to make sure they didn’t finish a close second. 

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Just now, wrathofhahn said:

Well until Feb we had the highest offer. I don't know why we kept it on the table forever hoping to get choosen.

If it was never going to be good enough figure that out early and move on to other options. Now we've wasted practically the entire offseason on machado.

What other options? Aside from Harper, are we going to be a ton better if we had signed Pollock and Keuchel? Where else are they going to spend that money?

We were after Machado because even though this team isn't ready to compete, getting a Hall of Fame caliber player when they are 26 and locking them up for 5 years is a good move even if we're 1 year away. Grabbing guys who are 29, 30 - you better have a team ready to go. Adding them to this 62 win roster would be worse than just standing pat.

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14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What other options? Aside from Harper, are we going to be a ton better if we had signed Pollock and Keuchel? Where else are they going to spend that money?

We were after Machado because even though this team isn't ready to compete, getting a Hall of Fame caliber player when they are 26 and locking them up for 5 years is a good move even if we're 1 year away. Grabbing guys who are 29, 30 - you better have a team ready to go. Adding them to this 62 win roster would be worse than just standing pat.

Well a bunch of veterans signed one year deals which could be moved later as rentals. Dozier. Moose. Grandal. Donaldson.

You have veteran pitchers like Garrett Richards. Matt Harvey. Who signed short term deals.

Market is very bare now. It's a misnomer to think just because we are rebuilding we have to play a bunch of 4A guys. You can sign competent veterans who are bounceback candidates to 1yr deals or short term contracts.

And beyond just the options out there it's a terrible negotiating tactic. It's also flat out embarrassing as a fan you guys are angry I'm more embarrassed for the organization then anything have some pride Hahn/KW if Dan didn't accept what you consider a legit offer move on

Edited by wrathofhahn

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1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

Well a bunch of veterans signed one year deals which could be moved later as rentals. Dozier. Moose. Grandal. Donaldson.

You have veteran pitchers like Garrett Richards. Matt Harvey. Who signed short term deals.

Market is very bare now. It's a misnomer to think just because we are rebuilding we have to play a bunch of 4A guys. You can sign competent veterans who are bounceback candidates to 1yr deals or short term contracts.

Jay, Nova, Herrera, Colome, McCann, Alonso. They already spent $40 million on that crap.

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5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Jay, Nova, Herrera, Colome, McCann, Alonso. They already spent $40 million on that crap.

Jay and Alonso were only brought in to lure Machado. They are legit crap

And 2WAR veterans that are bounceback candidates to become 4-5 WAR guys are not crap. We saw last year with Soria that kind of move can payoff.

Edited by wrathofhahn

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18 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Jay, Nova, Herrera, Colome, McCann, Alonso. They already spent $40 million on that crap.

And crap it is

Jay (what the fuck), Nova (eat innings...rather see Covey or Fulmer), McCann (won't make it through the season God willing)

Herrera and Colome actually both nice additions but one thing the Sox are not short on is reliever prospects

Alonso a good player but not needed, why would a rebuilding team add him? to piss of their only ML bat in Abreu?

Rather see Call over Jay by the way, keep Alonso

Let's just hope they don't sign more shit

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No, they just weren’t willing to win the bidding. KW literally said today that they couldn’t go to 300mm. 

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2 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

No, they just weren’t willing to win the bidding. KW literally said today that they couldn’t go to 300mm. 

If Prelller didn;t come in at the last second there is a very good chance he would have been a white sox. The issue is we put zero pressure on Machado to sign and kept the franchise in a holding pattern while we allowed Dan to shop around our offer.

We should have set a hard deadline and moved on. if they wanted to continue to wait then that is their prerogative but the reporting was is they had our offer in hand and was waiting for some team to beat it. We should have never allowed that.

Edited by wrathofhahn
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It is easy to say this in hindsight but White Sox fans would have hated this move if Hahn tried it and it didn't work. Manny would know the White Sox were bluffing anyway. There is no way they would walk away from Manny just because he wouldn't sign as quickly as they wanted and Sox fans would be livid if something like that occurred.

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9 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

If Prelller didn;t come in at the last second there is a very good chance he would have been a white sox. The issue is we put zero pressure on Machado to sign and kept the franchise in a holding pattern while we allowed Dan to shop around our offer.

We should have set a hard deadline and moved on. if they wanted to continue to wait then that is their prerogative but the reporting was is they had our offer in hand and was waiting for some team to beat it. We should have never allowed that.

They didn't even put their best offer on the table until another team had already beaten it.

What do you think they're going to do? Tell Machado's side in January that here's a $225 million deal, take it or leave it, and you expect them to say anything other than "We're leaving it"? Even if they'd gone with their true best offer of $250 million at that point, the player's side knew they could get a better deal from the Phillies at least, and that other teams would probably come sniffing around if it really stayed at that hugely discounted level. 

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18 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

For months the white sox offer sat out there. Did the white sox make a mistake by not walking away sooner and forcing a decision?

To me that seemed sort of the biggest misstep of all.

I don't think the White Sox were ever in a position to force Machado to make a decision. His team always believed patience would be needed. A new team (SD) entered and offered the best deal. The White Sox were operating within a pre-defined window.

As much as it's very pathetic that the White Sox got outbid by the Padres, especially when they have almost no payroll to speak of, there's probably a better than 50% chance (probably 60%+) that SD will regret that deal. 

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3 minutes ago, spiderman said:

I don't think the White Sox were ever in a position to force Machado to make a decision. His team always believed patience would be needed. A new team (SD) entered and offered the best deal. The White Sox were operating within a pre-defined window.

As much as it's very pathetic that the White Sox got outbid by the Padres, especially when they have almost no payroll to speak of, there's probably a better than 50% chance (probably 60%+) that SD will regret that deal. 

You can say that about any big free agent contract, so just never sign any top free agent, including two future Hall of Famers?

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4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

They didn't even put their best offer on the table until another team had already beaten it.

What do you think they're going to do? Tell Machado's side in January that here's a $225 million deal, take it or leave it, and you expect them to say anything other than "We're leaving it"? Even if they'd gone with their true best offer of $250 million at that point, the player's side knew they could get a better deal from the Phillies at least, and that other teams would probably come sniffing around if it really stayed at that hugely discounted level. 

I mean you've bought a house or made a huge purchase where you've negotiated right? I mean I just sold some property where the offer was literally good for a week. I negotiated another sale where we went back and forth on prices three times.

That is normal but at some point we should have told them it was take or leave it and our final offer. That should have been communicated clearly. The problem is it wasn't and Machado never thought we were going to move on or pivot to other players and neither did the rest of us. So why would there be any urgency on his end? According to reports his agent was shopping around our offer and waiting for another team to beat it for MONTHS.

Maybe he would have said thanks but no thanks anyways and would have sucked for those who wanted him here but honestly while noone knows how it would have played out I tend to believe he would have been a whitesox we were at the time really his only suitor and the Phillies were focused on Harper.

I've always said the FA market in baseball is all about timing. There are offers that appear and evaporate as teams move on all the time.

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On 2/19/2019 at 11:15 AM, wrathofhahn said:

For months the white sox offer sat out there. Did the white sox make a mistake by not walking away sooner and forcing a decision?

To me that seemed sort of the biggest misstep of all.

Maybe ,Doesn't matter , Water under the bridge. No way to know for sure. If anyone wants to imagine that's the case to make themselves feel worse  go for it.

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2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Maybe ,Doesn't matter , Water under the bridge. No way to know for sure. If anyone wants to imagine that's the case to make themselves feel worse  go for it.

It matters because it's a teachable moment or it at least should have been. At some point we will go after another big fish if we approach it the same way we will likely end up the same result.

I never wanted Machado so I'm not broken up we didn't end up with him but I am concerned about the way we approached negotiations we came up as desperate and put all our eggs in the basket of Machado when Grandal, Moose and Dozier signed one year deals. We brought in Jay and Alonso two of his bum friends and let them bunk with us and still had Machado turn us down which moved it beyond a disagreement on how they handled negotiations to outright embarrassment.

I've supported the process and I still think we can get by continuing the rebuild but this management has made misstep after misstep. I don't have any confidence anymore for Hahn and Williams to execute what is left of the rebuild. The Machado is just the cherry on the top for all the stupid decisions of the last three years. From who we have taken with the draft. To moving Tatis. To calling up Kopech in a pointless year then watching him blowing out his arm and probably 2-3 years of service time. To calling up Moncada before he was ready.

Edited by wrathofhahn

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Not a teachable moment for us. Maybe for them but maybe not. We'll see what Harper ends up going for. If it's in the $325M range  when the Sox supposed offer to Machado was a whopping $350M (according to Rosenthal) if all incentives were met and all options vested then they easily could offer $325 guaranteed to Harper. Let's see what they learned shall we ?

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On 2/20/2019 at 5:21 AM, wrathofhahn said:

Well until Feb we had the highest offer. I don't know why we kept it on the table forever hoping to get choosen.

If it was never going to be good enough figure that out early and move on to other options. Now we've wasted practically the entire offseason on machado.

Still could have taken Kimbrel, Keuchel and arguably Pollock and “3/4th’s assed it” instead of half-assed it like normally...

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