iamshack Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) Ugh, I've driven my point into the ground a hundred times, but it still won't stop people from making these ignorant "assumptions". The Sox will not do well in the playoffs. Sure, they can pull the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals, but they won't. As the Red Sox and Yankees just recently showed us, we can't beat good teams, at least when it matters. Winning this division by merely being slightly less bad than our competition will only result in a quick playoff exit and the maintaining of the current front office and managerial staff. It will likely mean that they are all kept around for a few more years, at the minimum. In my opinion, this front office and managerial staff has proven to be underachievers (even by "winning" this division in 2011, they will have greatly underachieved). With them going forward, we will see the same old story year in and year out. So yes, I would prefer to go in another direction at the expense of a no-chance opportunity at the World Series. I have my eyes set on the future of the team, whereas most pretty much just want the results now. Question my fanhood all you want, but I'm the one willing to stick with this team through a rebuilding process in order to pursue a greater chance at continuous contention (not in the sense of being the tallest midget, as it has been for the last few years in this division) in the future. But I suppose I should just want results immediately, which will almost certainly be to the long-term detriment of the team. That would make me a real fan. That's very noble of you and all, but if you were truly patient, you would cheer for success now, and a rebuild once players like Konerko/Peavy/Dunn/Rios/Mark have all moved on. Attempting to rebuild now, with our obligations over the next 2-3 years, as I have driven into the ground a hundred times, is absolutely foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:25 PM) Jensky, do you only show up to mock other posters when the Sox win? Because I never see you around otherwise. Without naming names, there are plenty of those on the other side too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) Without naming names, there are plenty of those on the other side too. No doubt, but they are called out much more frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:25 PM) Jensky, do you only show up to mock other posters when the Sox win? Because I never see you around otherwise. As I've said before, only to mock the upper-echelon of stupid posts. This site has been pretty much unbearable otherwise for most of the season, so there's no point in posting unless you somehow work in how much ozzie/kw/dunn/rios/pierre all suck ass. And really, you're upset because I mocked a post about how the Sox winning the division would be terrible in a SOX WINNER thread for one of the biggest games of the season? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:38 PM) That's very noble of you and all, but if you were truly patient, you would cheer for success now, and a rebuild once players like Konerko/Peavy/Dunn/Rios/Mark have all moved on. Attempting to rebuild now, with our obligations over the next 2-3 years, as I have driven into the ground a hundred times, is absolutely foolish. I guess we just have to agree to disagree. It just bothers me when the kind of fan I am is questioned, or the idea of ever rebuilding is considered stupid or quitting. This fanbase is growing less and less interested in this team, and I believe that it has a ton to do with the people in charge of the team. It's normal for the die-hards like us on the board to feel that way, but I'm starting to see it in many, many casual fans. That's scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 06:38 PM) That's very noble of you and all, but if you were truly patient, you would cheer for success now, and a rebuild once players like Konerko/Peavy/Dunn/Rios/Mark have all moved on. Attempting to rebuild now, with our obligations over the next 2-3 years, as I have driven into the ground a hundred times, is absolutely foolish. Good post shack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:10 PM) Liking the manager/GM is more important than the team succeeding....got it. My #1 hope, obviously, is the Sox make the playoffs. But, if we miss the playoffs and it leads to changes, I'd also be happy. The only scenario that would truly make me completely unhappy is missing the playoffs and no changes being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:47 PM) As I've said before, only to mock the upper-echelon of stupid posts. This site has been pretty much unbearable otherwise for most of the season, so there's no point in posting unless you somehow work in how much ozzie/kw/dunn/rios/pierre all suck ass. And really, you're upset because I mocked a post about how the Sox winning the division would be terrible in a SOX WINNER thread for one of the biggest games of the season? Really? I probably wouldn't have even responded if you did anything other than make condescending posts or mocking other posters. At least with the vast majority of posters I disagree with regularly, they make jovial posts throughout the rest of the site in which they don't seem the least bit antagonistic. You seem to do only the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:48 PM) My #1 hope, obviously, is the Sox make the playoffs. But, if we miss the playoffs and it leads to changes, I'd also be happy. The only scenario that would truly make me completely unhappy is missing the playoffs and no changes being made. Really? Winning the division with an extremely weak record, being shown the door immediately, and no changes would make you happy? See, I just don't understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) Ugh, I've driven my point into the ground a hundred times, but it still won't stop people from making these ignorant "assumptions". The Sox will not do well in the playoffs. Sure, they can pull the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals, but they won't. As the Red Sox and Yankees just recently showed us, we can't beat good teams, at least when it matters. Winning this division by merely being slightly less bad than our competition will only result in a quick playoff exit and the maintaining of the current front office and managerial staff. It will likely mean that they are all kept around for a few more years, at the minimum. In my opinion, this front office and managerial staff has proven to be underachievers (even by "winning" this division in 2011, they will have greatly underachieved). With them going forward, we will see the same old story year in and year out. So yes, I would prefer to go in another direction at the expense of a no-chance opportunity at the World Series. I have my eyes set on the future of the team, whereas most pretty much just want the results now. Question my fanhood all you want, but I'm the one willing to stick with this team through a rebuilding process in order to pursue a greater chance at continuous contention (not in the sense of being the tallest midget, as it has been for the last few years in this division) in the future. But I suppose I should just want results immediately, which will almost certainly be to the long-term detriment of the team. That would make me a real fan. I understand what your point is. But if on Sept. 28th the Sox can clinch the divison by beating Toronto, I just find it amusing you would openly root for them to lose. 2006 Cardinals, blah blah blah, either way, watching my team lose in the playoffs >>>>> not making the playoffs IMO As shack said, this team has several financial commitments that will keep them from rebuilding immediately anyway, so might as well go for it this year or two. Anyway, there is no guarantee a rebuilding process puts them in position to compete. The Royals have been "rebuilding" for 25 years and they are still in last place w/o a single playoff appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:51 PM) Really? Winning the division with an extremely weak record, being shown the door immediately, and no changes would make you happy? See, I just don't understand that. I think the distinction is that you are the only one assuming the quick playoff exit. And honestly, you have absolutely nothing you can base that assumption on, other than your own penchant for pessimism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Come on now, if the SOX make the playoffs they'll atleast win one game. Not more than I can say for the disgraceful twinkies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) I think the distinction is that you are the only one assuming the quick playoff exit. And honestly, you have absolutely nothing you can base that assumption on, other than your own penchant for pessimism. Nothing to base it on? C'mon. The complete dismantling in one week by the Red Sox and Yankees when we had pressure on us to get over .500 and back into it? Our last playoff appearance? Our complete lack of hitting? The penchant for our manager to play underachieving players regularly and to be outmaneuvered by opposing managers? I know, I know. The 2006 Cardinals and our good pitching staff. But the Red Sox have a fairly decent pitching staff of their own, and even if we hold their offense down, I'm sure their pitching would hold our offense further down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:51 PM) I understand what your point is. But if on Sept. 28th the Sox can clinch the divison by beating Toronto, I just find it amusing you would openly root for them to lose. 2006 Cardinals, blah blah blah, either way, watching my team lose in the playoffs >>>>> not making the playoffs IMO As shack said, this team has several financial commitments that will keep them from rebuilding immediately anyway, so might as well go for it this year or two. Anyway, there is no guarantee a rebuilding process puts them in position to compete. The Royals have been "rebuilding" for 25 years and they are still in last place w/o a single playoff appearance. Even if that means we continue to see the same old mediocrity consistently? Even if they don't rebuild right now, which is a good argument with the contracts, they need another manager and probably GM in there to compete with this current squad. We won't see that if we make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:48 PM) My #1 hope, obviously, is the Sox make the playoffs. But, if we miss the playoffs and it leads to changes, I'd also be happy. The only scenario that would truly make me completely unhappy is missing the playoffs and no changes being made. That sums up my feelings as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) Even if that means we continue to see the same old mediocrity consistently? Even if they don't rebuild right now, which is a good argument with the contracts, they need another manager and probably GM in there to compete with this current squad. We won't see that if we make the playoffs. If winning the Central in 2 of 4 years is mediocrity, then I'll take that, I don't care how weak the division is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) We have a good pitching staff. That is why we could be dangerous in the playoffs. Of course, guys have to perform well under the pressure. Even if you lose in the first round of the playoffs, you are guaranteed one home playoff game...two if you aren't swept. That means more revenue for the team and might help a little bit in making up for the lower attendance this year due to the underperformance of this team. You also get more recognition on a national scale. People across the nation will watch since these are the only games on in October. That helps to build a fanbase. Even if you lose in the first round, you probably gain some fans or at least people learn more about your team/franchise. And...you get to raise a divisional winner flag!!!!!! But, I think that this team would have a chance if we win the division. We have played well recently in Fenway Park. Actually, won the first four games of our season series with the Red Sox. Swept them in Fenway. Went 1-2 at US Cellular. We would draw the Red Sox in the first round if they win their division and Yanks get the wildcard. As long as Red Sox have the best record in AL. Edited August 17, 2011 by sunofgold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 01:06 PM) If winning the Central in 2 of 4 years is mediocrity, then I'll take that, I don't care how weak the division is. Consistently winning the division is the first step towards becoming a powerhouse like the Yankees or Red Sox (which is obviously what I want), but we won't grow to that dominance with Ozzie Guillen and probably Williams. The players just do not respond to Ozzie well enough anymore. They've grown incredibly complacent, and I think that's readily visible to anyone. There is no accountability with him, he plays favorites, takes no criticism whatsoever, and sticks with boneheaded moves solely out of pigheadedness or possibly an outdated theory on how baseball is played. The rebuild may not be necessary, but certainly a change in philosophy and management is. With a playoff appearance, we will be assured of the same old thing for at least one more year, but probably much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 01:03 PM) Even if that means we continue to see the same old mediocrity consistently? Even if they don't rebuild right now, which is a good argument with the contracts, they need another manager and probably GM in there to compete with this current squad. We won't see that if we make the playoffs. How do we know another manager or GM would do any better? I'm not advocating holding onto these two, but there's no guarantees that anyone else keeps this team in contention. A new GM would still be hampered with the contracts of Dunn/Rios/Peavy. This may be the closest they are to the playoffs in years. You don't know how much better it would be or how long a rebuild would take. Consistent mediocrity is better than whats going on in KC or Pittsburgh or Baltimore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) How do we know another manager or GM would do any better? I'm not advocating holding onto these two, but there's no guarantees that anyone else keeps this team in contention. A new GM would still be hampered with the contracts of Dunn/Rios/Peavy. This may be the closest they are to the playoffs in years. You don't know how much better it would be or how long a rebuild would take. Consistent mediocrity is better than whats going on in KC or Pittsburgh or Baltimore. But we do know what we get out of these guys. That is mediocrity. A change in management is necessary. Again, the rebuild may not be necessary at this point. I've backed off of that several times already (I still wouldn't be opposed to one, though). But we need to change something in management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 11:41 PM) Seriously, this team is drawing me back in again and that scares the s*** out of me because I know it's just going to end in heart break. The W did not hide the typical mental midget breakdown they are known for. Lillibridge proves again he is a dumb base runner. Beckham needs to stop the Adam Dunn impersonations. De Aza is awesome. Will Walker ruin him? Plus he's made Rios play better. Hawk mentioned how the pen had 19Ks, but once again too many metal midgets. We should be more impressed with the Indians than the Sox after this game. You don't see any quit in them and the strength of their team is not on pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 01:14 PM) But we do know what we get out of these guys. That is mediocrity. A change in management is necessary. Again, the rebuild may not be necessary at this point. I've backed off of that several times already (I still wouldn't be opposed to one, though). But we need to change something in management. It is possible, by the way, that the Sox win the division, AND Ozzie is gone in the offseason. Not likely, but possible. That is my ideal scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 02:24 PM) It is possible, by the way, that the Sox win the division, AND Ozzie is gone in the offseason. Not likely, but possible. That is my ideal scenario. I think that would take Florida opening up the talent pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 01:26 PM) I think that would take Florida opening up the talent pool. Free LoMo!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:26 PM) I think that would take Florida opening up the talent pool. Then again, how willing is Kenny/JR willing to part with Ozzie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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