WestEddy

Vargas is the 2nd best 3B in the game by fWAR. He's in a slump. What have they built now? They can develop hitters. They're not reliant on trading for top 10 prospects and just plugging them in. I know it "remains to be seen", but they also seem to be getting value out of the rest of the draft. Antonacci in the 5th round and Baldwin out of the 12th are epiphones. Having just promoted 7 prospects over the last 2 seasons, they're stretched pretty thin. But if Colson is really going to strike out at a 40% rate, they have Caleb Bonemer in AAA next year. They started with a weak OF and plugged in 3 prospects. There's a lot better depth. As far as pitching, I was thinking how woeful they look right now, but they stand a chance of coming to spring training with a dozen rotation candidates on the 40-man or in AAA. We've never had that kind of depth.

The Mets didn't do any better. They just gave him away for salary relief.

They were getting nothing from International. I believe the 2027 class will be Keller's first full class attributable to his work, alone. And whether you want to believe Getz sucks at trades, or he was left with a bunch of bad rep players, he didn't get much from trading his "A" tier (Vaughn, Robert, Jimenez, Moncada, Cease, Kopech, Crochet, Bummer). They were upper middle tier, really, just on their drafting and the Crochet trade. Quero was top 10, also.

You are so close. LOL. I understand that to you, older victims of sexual harassment don't matter if you don't like them. That we all deserved it because we actually like the teams we root for. I pray you learn to grow away from this hatred you embrace. People like you and Mike Shirley are of a time gone by. Dear God, please help ss2k5 find the light, and lead him out of the darkness that makes him purposefully misinterpret people's posts so he can glorify acts of harassment and blame others. Amen.

I sure hope you get to say that stuff to the guy who actually said those things. None of that is what I actually posted. You and others use any news like this to take a steaming dump on the org and pretend this isn't systemic in the game. The Angels had a pitcher choke on his vomit after partying with fentanyl and oxycodone supplied by team employees. Other teams fired GMs for having affairs with their employees. Bad on Reinsdorf for letting all of that happen. I have grown up. And I've emerged from the stuff I described happening around me a better person. I'm going to go pray on this, now, and my prayer will be that you learn how to comprehend the things you read and maybe lose some of the hatred you have in your heart. God Bless You.

Okay, that part of my post was wrong. I was reacting to someone saying that recognizing problem behavior and firing the person doesn't exonerate the org. I grew up in a time where this stuff was flying around all the time in the workplace. Again, those weren't the good ole' days. I can't believe acting like this is something unique to the White Sox. It's a good ole' boy industry.

Clevenger was employed under a negotiated union contract. Shirley wasn't. The team investigated the previous complaints against Shirley in '22, and didn't find anything that reached the level of firing him. That was under KW/Hahn, BTW. I don't know if Getz was hearing a steady stream of complaints since he took over. Being verbally abusive to one's reports doesn't just spontaneously happen overnight.

I'm not opining for it. It happened. Sexual harassment was everywhere. And I agree with cracking down on it. Not saying I liked the asst. store manager asking me if there was anything between me and the cashier I was giving a ride home after work. It happened. I suppose that makes me a victim of harassment. Shirley should have been fired, and they'll get somebody better and who won't distract his co-workers and reports with BS, or give the impression that the White Sox org is filled with idiots spouting off about some kid's mom. But let's not pretend this isn't all around the industry, and only the White Sox tolerate bad behavior. Shirley had a title that said he should have known better than to behave that way. He was on a leash, and they fired him. I'm happy about that.

The more I reminisce, I guess you're right. In that environment, it was more like college friends, and some of the women - I'd get in regular arguments with over work expectations, conduct and stuff, co-workers compared it to siblings. There were attractive women, but nobody I'd start vomiting out lurid, vulgar stuff like maybe Shirley did. Everybody trusted each other. And the ugly stuff crosses a line and destroys that trust that makes the workplace work, even when people get baudy and open up to each other. Now, retail in my teens (70s-80s) and construction in my 20s (1980s), racist and sexist like you wouldn't believe. The Rodney King riots happened then. Boy, the conversation at the lumber warehouse with other truck drivers who watched the footage.

You give the other person 3 names, and they have to tell you, from those three people you both know, which one they'd copulate with, which one they'd marry, and which one they'd kill. The drinky convo was explaining your logic. Okay, you go first. WS23, SS2k5 and Paulie4Prez.

You don't know f***/marry/kill? A bunch of 30-somethings out of Big 10 colleges, move to Chicago. Market Research is an alcoholic industry. Long hours, everybody hits Billy Goat's afterwards. Around 8:00, after 2 hours of drinking, stories start coming out, whatever. We got respect through the long hours and bailing each other's asses out. I started a couple years before internet surveys became a thing in the late 1990s. Ronin and SPSS really hadn't honed their online products, yet. We'd program "Computer Surveys" to launch from an icon off a CD, send them to mall recruiting sites, then they'd send back data on disc. Trying to iron out survey logic issues until the FedEx cutoff at 9:00. Miss that and you have to drive to the airport to make the 10:00 cutoff. Anyway, everybody's checking everybody else out. Respectfully.

You Millennials through Gen Zers are funny. Shirley's a baseball guy in a male-centric industry. Let's not pat ourselves on the back for tsk-tsking so heartily. I'm 63. In pretty much all my jobs before 30, bosses were taking me aside, asking asking me if I was banging the secretary or whatnot. And if I wasn't, somebody oughta be. They wanted lurid war stories. Maybe this is frowned upon today, but it's all over the place still, I'm sure. I worked in corporate mid-30's to age 50, and I never had to worry about saying something stupid because the women were worse than the men with after-hours, drinky-time baudy talk. That's where I learned the f***/marry/kill game. I'm sure the Sox drew a line in the sand after the first investigation, and kept an eye on it, tolerating any hot-headed BS because he did his job fine, but keep those slurs out of your mouth. As soon as the Area Code games stuff bubbled up, that was a bridge too far. The fact that it happened and he was gone tells me it was a live issue they were ready to move on. Listening to the FutureSox PodCast right now. They'll plug in somebody better than Shirley quick, and only Caulfield will be bringing this up in order to shame the happy dogs in 6 months.

right after Colson flubbed the third out, it seems.

Are you saying that Marco Paddy and Kenny Williams were fired because of their ethnicity and race?

Yeah, I figured you'd have nothing but excuses. Weird how I can look back on the past, and be 100% correct on everything, like I already know the outcome. Brazoban was a great trade acquisition. Then he became ineffective. That doesn't make it a bad trade. Joey Bart was a good pickup. Him getting injured doesn't make that a bad trade. Doyle is an elite defensive CF. They thought he'd at least work as a platoon bat who could be parlayed into more next season. The bat hasn't responded quickly enough. Your excuse is that you know he was going to be DFAed on 8/4. I'm not sure why I have to declare that everybody is stupid because a calculated risk hasn't shown the best possible outcome. Castillo has very specific legwork they're targeting. When the Sox were clearly in rebuild mode, your excuse was somebody said in a speech a year earlier they weren't going to rebuild, so you got to ignore their rebuild, and demand an instant winner. Now that the team's exceeding expectations, your excuse is the team's done with the rebuild you wouldn't even acknowledge and need to trade the whole farm system for mid rentals. If they traded for Robbie Ray, your excuse would be you knew he'd suck.

WTF are you even talking about, "as you thought"? They promoted most of their top 10 of a not-very-deep middle third system, and are probably bottom third now. They have the exact farm system as I thought. San Diego's 3-4 in Robbie Ray's starts because their offense isn't hitting .100 over the month of September. Mason Adams is a pitcher, and Doyle is an OF, so I'm not sure what the comparison is.

Wait, I don't know that the ask for other, more controllable pitchers was cost-prohibitive, but you know of other pitchers that were available for cheaper? Let's have that list and what those teams were asking. This is all the same "We coulda had Keaschal!!!!" BS. The FO picks a direction, then you get to crow all of the paths not taken. They have Jesus Bart, now. Why didn't they clinch yet? I'd love to hear your excuse for that. No, "f@#$%^ up big time" is just another excuse from the glum excuse crowd. Waiting for a move to play out before I start screaming like a child isn't "making excuses".

I'm picking two examples to not write a novel. The supposed goal was to not trade Bonemer or sell low on Carlson. So yes, the Nimmala package would have put a serious dent in our farm system. Robbie Ray's post-deadline work would have everyone screaming that Castillo was available. Boston Smith, Mason Adams and Vielma aren't the same level of prospect as Bonemer.

Was that the rumor - that was actually him?

f*** you, Cardinals!!!

Nobody's suggesting Hostetler. Garrett Guest is the Asst. Director.

Yeah, the abrupt exit felt like it could be something like this. I wonder if Getz has his guy in mind, or they just ratchet everyone up a notch.