WestEddy

In the 5-round draft of 2020, they took 5 pitchers. In 2021, 10 of the first 12 picks were pitchers. 2022, 6 of the first 7 were pitchers. So, it's fair to say they concentrated on pitching, first. Of those 4 drafts, 2 of the starting pitchers in their rotation have been drafted and developed. One made the All-Star team. I think that's evidence of good drafting and development on the pitching side. I don't think you really believe that a player selected in the last draft or two should be starting at the major league level, yet. So you're judging the entire development system on two high school infielders taken at 1 at & 2 in 2021, and a glove first college SS taken in the 4th round in 2022. 2 offensive players drafted by the White Sox from 2021 onward are now at AAA. But the entire system is suspect until they're making All-Star teams. I agree that they won't be competitive next year. I don't think it will take until 2031, either. The trades they make this TDL and winter meetings will net some offensive prospects closer to the bigs.

He certainly hasn't lived up to his first round pedigree, but he has positive bWAR, and his fWAR has been dinged hard for playing RF.

Again, I'm not going to play the game of "tee-hee, you can't make me say yes" with you. I have tried to show that the list of names at A ball are different than the warm bodies thrown out there during Hostetler's time drafting. These are players who are dominating their level, and playing their way to the next, not just being promoted to make room for the next draft class. MLB players have taken clear steps forward in their approaches to hitting. Korey Lee and Gavin Sheets are two examples. Lenyn Sosa holding his own is another. Colson Montgomery wasn't a big name that fell to the Sox. He was an unknown who they developed into a top 20 prospect. No, I can't show you a list of 5 year major leaguers. Again, it's not accurate to deride a development system that you know has changed and is producing hitters until they have All-Stars multiple years.

You have to draft talent to be able to develop it. I contend we haven't been doing that until 2020. It's disingenuous to pretend things haven't changed until you can point to a positional player who has excelled for the last 4 years in the majors. It's also nice you can point backwards and criticize the previous regime's failures. It's not my job to make you say that "things have changed". Speaking only for the draft, when they obtained talent, they developed it. Not being able to develop Larry King's or Jerry Reinsdorf's sons drafted at 39 isn't really a failure of the development system.

You seem to keep ignoring that the Hostetler didn't have good drafts, whereas Mike Shirley has. Of the higher level draftees the Sox had taken from 2016-2020, 2016 - Zack Collins was a controversial pick, in a horrible draft class. They couldn't fix the hitch in his swing. Alex Call is a 4th OF who was traded, and 2 other organizations haven't been able to tap into his "talent", either. Jameson Fisher - bad pick. 2017 - Jake Burger - they got what they could out of him, and then for him. He seems developed as a hitter. Gavin Sheets? He's probably near his ceiling, oscillating between an OPS of .700 - .750. A lot of teams are running worse out there at 1B. Luis Gonzalez - traded. 2 other organizations haven't tapped into his talent. He's a 4th OF. 2018 - Nick Madrigal - Controversial pick who actually did hit with the White Sox. He never developed as a fielder. Steele Walker - traded, 3 other organizations haven't been able to tap into his talent. Lency Delgado? High school SS who never hit. Probably a bad pick. 2019 - Andrew Vaughn. Maybe this last 6 weeks is what he is. If so, I'd call that developed. James Beard - HS OF who never got going. Maybe a bad pick? I'm not going to get into the water polo star picked by the 10th round who never developed or college catchers who were drafted in the top ten rounds because they could sign at the minimum. The fact that they got later round picks like Romy Gonzalez or Zach Remillard to the majors belies an ability to develop these guys as hitters and fielders. I expect the mob to jump in, now, and mock Remy and Romy as examples, but Hostetler drafted like pure s%*#. Burger, Sheets and Madrigal do hit. They've been developed as hitters. Vaughn looks to be in that group, too. Contrast the Hostetler drafts with the progress shown by Shirley's picks. Tim Elko, Brooks Baldwin, Colson Montgomery are hitting or at least maintaining at higher levels. Jacob Gonzalez and George Wolkow look like raw talent that has been brought along early to have success at levels advanced for them. Caden Conner, Mikey Kane, Ryan Galanie, Rikuu Nishida - they all look like good picks who are excelling at their levels, and are progressing along.

Perhaps Jake Eder has drawn the short straw, and has the onus of holding the pillow over a certain person's face to launch this franchise into the present.

If you want to have this argument, why not just repost the old one you guys deleted? And if our system has gotten Vaughn and Sheets to top out their talent, that's a win.

It's a good thing they fired the GM and VP who were in charge the last 15 years, then.

We're not. JR does spend, Hahn just spent unwisely in the recent past. Fangraphs has the White Sox with a top ten farm system, and we're only going to add to it this draft, TDL and off-season. There's a group here who gets their jollies ganging up on anybody positive, and shouts nonsense at them. The White Sox are drafting well, we are developing hitters and pitchers, and JR will spend when we have a reason to. No, we won't be grabbing the top player on the market for 10/$400m, but we'll see if Chris Getz is any better at FA evaluation when the time comes.

If Jerry Reinsdorf of Chris Getz were posting here, they wouldn't even notice us.

Although, didn't we go through a period in August of teams DFAing players when the teams felt their playoff window closed? I could see Eloy and Yoan going through waivers to see if anyone wanted to pick up their salary for a post-season run.

Don't think this deserves its own string:

Probably even guys like Davis Martin and Sean Burke doing tandem outings.

It will be an emotional game that is the last lineup with Eloy, Yoan and Robert. Shriffen will announce it like Roller Derby.

Robert's put up 1.0 bWAR in 38 games. I'd love to have a whole team playing at that level of crap.

It will be a good learning experience when MLB hitters light him up, and he holds his head high while walking back to the dugout, mid-inning. He threw a nice clean inning.

Career OPS+ of 106. That's better than average. The teams I mentioned are running out much worse, lesser defensive options.

It's $5m v. $8m. Pay the buyout, pay his salary. There's a lot in it for Moncada if he can get on the field by around the 18th of July, or whatnot. Mutually beneficial. If he could OPS .750 in a playoff run, and play good 3B defense, he might be one of the higher FA guys. Even if he doesn't, then he plays 6 weeks with the White Sox, takes up a roster spot from a prospect, and makes his comeback in front of a much smaller crowd. These guys are athletes. A lot of them are so competitive, it ruins their lives. I'm sure they're not making him do something he is opposed to.

Juan Gonzalez is the most famous example that comes to mind. Crochet just looks like he's finally healthy, and is going to be one of the top pitchers hitting the market at that young age. I could see him being amenable to guaranteeing the 2 arb years. He might give a discount on one FA year to get that. 3/$45m. I don't see him going longer, and I don't see a team going shorter. Seriously, if he takes 3/$45m, his grand kids are all millionaire Yale grads. But he's not being invited to be part of a group that buys the NO Saints, or whatever.

Yeah, Moncada's an $8m flier for 2 months if the Sox pick up the buyout. That wouldn't seem like a hard sell. "Either we send the $5m to get a warm body, or we pay Yoan $5m in December. I could see them doing anything, even sending international slot space along with him, just to clear the roster spot and some money.

When he first went down, "right after the All-Star break" was the target. That doesn't seem like rushing.

I struggle to understand why rehabbing an injured player is stupid. He's gone after this year, anyway, and he sure ain't coming back for a playoff push. Guy's getting paid $24m to sit. F-him.

The Dodgers are running a pile of slop out at 3B with Max Muncy on the DL. Yankees, D-Backs, Padres. Yoan would be a step up. If we eat the $5m, get someone back.