WestEddy

You know, it really isn't hard to just concede a simple point.

Oh, everybody else should talk. The goalposts have more miles on them than my car from "name people we developed!!" "No, they don't count, because they had talent!!!"

The path of this argument pretty much always goes: 1) "where are the MLB players who we developed?" 2) I list out players that came through our system 3) None of those count, because reasons. (took too long, had their own trainer, were just really good) 4) I then list out the shitty, later round draft choices who topped out at AAA, but made prospect lists 5) Everybody laughs because they "failed". It's a dishonest argument. The White Sox are behind the league in development. It's stupid to declare that they didn't develop anybody, except for those they did, but none of the successes count.

If you want to make the argument that the White Sox are behind the league when it comes to development, great. Make that argument, and I'd agree with you. If you're going to ask me to type out the names of every single white Sox prospect who played in the majors so you can make arguments why they don't count, I'm tired of participating in that word game. Players are responsible for their own training in the off-season. If they body-build instead of working on baseball skills, that's on them. Many players all over the league go to places like Driveline to improve their skills. That's not some indictment of the team. Every team has players who do this, so therefore, every team sucks at development. That's a ludicrous argument. Dylan Cease was shaky in his first season in the bigs, as many great pitchers are, was still shaky during the COVID season, then put together a strong, solid, first full big league season. That's not a fail. Drafting a catcher with a hitch in his swing with the 10th pick of a weak draft class is more of an indictment of drafting. Not being able to fix him is on development. Rushing him to the majors is on the GM. I get exasperated with this discussion because guys like Giolito and Cease are development wins. Yes, they should have been converting on guys like Alec Hansen, Wes Kath, Lincoln Henzman, Thornton/Dalquist. They don't. I'm not going to pretend to know why.

I pretty much agree with all of this. Hostetler's drafts always seemed to get generally good ratings from the "experts", but then the pitchers who make it up to AAA turn out to be junk-ballers who would be killed in the majors. Looking back years later, yes, 2019 was a disaster of a draft.

This list is silly and subjective. You don't differentiate between guys who were rushed by the GM, guys who got injured and never really came back, 38th rounders, guys like Ian Clarkin, who 2 other organizations "failed" also. The director of player development doesn't make MLB roster decisions, trades, or run the draft or international scouting. Until you address any of that, my work is done here.

Just as I figured. You can't name a single prospect who should have been developed, but wasn't. Maybe you should call the baseball police. Something's amiss. LOL.

Maybe the Cubs or Royals will pick them up.

Because the vast majority of Sox fans who consume social media are spoon fed vomit. It's been over an hour. Where is this list of dynamite prospects that were failed under Getz. I'm waiting. .....

and really, if Ford put out 4 million vehicles, it would be really stupid to say that the production manager doesn't get to take credit for those vehicles, because that's what he's supposed to do. I'm not even defending Chris Getz. I'm defending logic and sanity. You know who came through the system under Getz, and it's relatively easy to find out how involved he and the system he put in place were in their development. It's disingenuous to cloud the waters with BS, then challenge anybody who pushes back on the thick BS to name names, then pretend that Luis Robert went to the Mets, and they developed him on the sly. Or some other BS. Yours is an illogical argument. It's incumbent upon you to prove how every single player who came through the Sox' system from 2017 to 2020 did so despite all of the coaches thrashing about on the ground in convulsions of failure.

Tell me, did the director of player development make the decisions to rush players, putting college starters in the bullpen, first basemen in the outfield? Did the director of player development make the decision to punt on draft rounds 3-10 in order to pull money to catch a high school kid in the 30th round? Did the director of player development trade guys like Fernando Tatis Jr, and such? This is such a stupid conversation. Please, anybody, give the name of one single prospect put into our minor league system who should have been a tip-in, and Chris Getz personally screwed up their development. I will wait for the answer. For a long, long time. Seriously. Type the name of one can't miss prospect who was screwed up by Getz's system. Type the name of one promising prospect who wasn't brought along properly. ONE. TYPE ONE NAME.

I've already done this. Why does it have to be "prospects who exceeded expectations"? Anybody who came through the minor league system was "developed". Luis Robert had to be taught some strike zone judgement. Yoan had to get some aggressiveness. I'm not sure why that's such a hard swallow for everyone. I get it. Everyone hates Getz. That doesn't mean he had no hand in running a system that major league players came through.

And then there's the ones who succeeded because they covered their ears and went, "la-la-la" when Sox coaches tried to coach them, and then they watched YouTube videos and became Luis Robert.

Old friend alert. Baltimore probably paid the same amount the Mets did, but Baltimore's cash is so much better developed. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/04/orioles-acquire-yohan-ramirez-from-mets.html

He has the value of a pitcher who can contribute all of 2025, as opposed to a guy who has reached his innings limit for 2024. And of course Getz would want the receiving team to pay for August, September and October Crochet, regardless of how useful he'd be.

Exactly.

I'd think the Sox would request that Crochet not be picked, or used, due to his innings limit. In which case, Kopech, or if, for some reason, other weirdness in the AL happens, I could see something crazy, like Sheets continuing to just hit, and the AL needing a 1B/DH.

Sure. I guess my weakness is I find it insulting when somebody tries to bully you into agreeing to something that is fundamentally untrue. Then my inner-internet bro-dude kicks in, and I don't let it go. And if I dig in on, "they're not just going to cut half their bullpen because you're sad", I'm a Chris Getz burner account. Most of the time, I'm not even defending anybody, just stating a simple fact.

Have they announced starters for the Cincinnati series? I would think Flexen, Crochet and TBA. Shuster threw 3 in the bullpen game, so he lines up.

I still don't understand what you're trying to bet on, here. You asked me to define a moderately productive season for Sheets, and I answered that if he put up 1.5-2 WAR, I would consider that moderately productive. There's nothing to bet on.

He should have been let go right after last season. He wasn't. Getz should have been allowed to go in a different direction this season. Maybe Getz was given the option with JR's preferences laid out for him, and Getz figured he'd save that mulligan, and let Grifol absorb all the losses of a poorly assembled roster (from previous), and let his preferred manager start with a better roster to manage. There seems to be a difference between last year and this year with younger guys getting playing time, and changing the batting order up. Maybe Getz has put forward some directives, and Grifol's following.

I'm not remembering the exact roster construction that day, but the team is limited to 13 pitchers on their roster at any time until Sept 1, then they can have 14. edit - Oh, I see the Shuster part. I think a team is also limited to how many times they can send a player down to the minors, also. I've read that Shuster will get the next 5th starter slot, but I'm not sure.

If we're going to acknowledge that Grifol has some baseball knowledge, and isn't a drooling moron, we could probably also recognize that Getz is operating under certain constraints we won't be privy to. They were both dealt a s%*# hand, Grifol more than Getz, and they're dealing with it. I don't remember a single manager in my lifetime that was generally accepted as competent by the vocal fanbase. And you know, penny wise, pound foolish still works when you collect 100 billion pennies.

I'm not a Grifol fan. I don't watch every game, but it's funny how, coming out of the negative echo chamber, here, and reentering reality, I actually thought yesterday was a pretty well managed game. Some moves worked great, some didn't. That's baseball. I honestly don't understand the people who have to crap all over those who just want to enjoy the game, then talk about it.

Uh, yes, I'm "chicken" to make any binding bet with a guy whose goalposts are always moving, and doesn't even know the definition of words. Why don't you post your casino bet ticket at the value of your house that the Sox won't cover the over on 42 wins? You love to pretend you're the baseball savant. go bet the money, and post a copy of your ticket. Otherwise, STFU. i will not be joining you, as I'm not a moron, and don't sports bet.