WestEddy

DeJong and Lopez are stability. Given the chance, either can put up 1.5-2 bWAR behind the pitching staff you're trying to develop. I dig Lenyn Sosa, and wanted him starting 2B, and he gave us negative WAR last year, he was so lost. I think we have 4-5 guys like Rodriguez at AAA and AA.

I, too, am finding Fletcher frustrating, and I'm hoping he can get on a little bit of a roll sometime soon. But it happens. Trades don't work out. It it starts to happen that NO trades are working out, like Rick Hahn's luck, then I'll start to believe that they're not taking the advice of their scouts, or they're using MLB's prospect rankings or something stupid like that. Our minor league system sucks, not because really good prospects are being misled into bad habits that ruin their talent, but because we have a bunch of one good tool guys who we're waiting on to look like the guy from 3 years ago. And I think Jose Rodriguez is one of those guys. He hits, he just doesn't light it up. It's nice he's good at multiple positions. Not having prospects doesn't mean we have to hang onto non-prospects. The Athletic, Keith Law, SoxMachine, Twitter journalists/bloggers I follow - that was their reaction. A little light, but if this guy develops, look out. I like SoxTalk (as you can tell from how much time I'm here), but I do think it's a bit of a negative echo chamber, as is a lot of White Sox Twitter and other blogs.

Just in 2017, 10-20, I think there were 2-3 guys who have produced more than 3 bWAR. Garret Whitlock for the Yankees, JR Sears, and a guy for the Astros. Twins had one, too. 4 guys. This isn't a high-percentage occurrence.

Oh, stop with the silly generalities. Here, watch: The Vizquel and Wes Helms situation should have been a disqualifier. That's an actual argument that I'd respect. Pretending that Hahn/KW got fired because an entry level hire didn't save the organization from itself is ludicrous.

I did not say someone other than Getz. Hahn regularly rostered players clearly in over their heads for the opening day start (May, Colas, Micah Johnson). Again, if Getz was such a crappy director, and now GM, and if I was so clearly wrong, you wouldn't have to resort to picking at misinterpretations of what I said to have any kind of argument.

It's a weird pivot, when AJ asks, "Where are all the prospects he's developed?" Then has to move the goal-posts to non-blue chip, then to late rounders. Jake Burger wasn't a "blue chip" prospect. He was a bat-first prospect who everyone questioned his ability to stay at 3B. Luis Robert needed coaching on pitch selection and fielding. It's disingenuous to start eliminating successes. I mean, if Chris Getz did such a crappy job as director of player development, you wouldn't have to make special rules to eliminate the people who disprove the claim.

The *professional* opinions I saw grading the Cease trade fall on the "a little light" part of the spectrum. I've not seen anybody with any credibility refer to the trade return as "pretty bad". At best, Jose Rodriguez is a future utility infielder who can't take a walk, and OBPed under .300 while hitting .270. Being on a "top 30 prospect list" doesn't insure a full career starting in the majors. Situational? Like, looking at 2/3 of the PAs at a position is a situation? Seriously, if you try, you can even make drafting Frank Thomas look like a dumb decision.

Because Ramos and Elko probably got way more ABs in front of Grifol than they should have. Nobody talks about Elko being a serious prospect. Ramos may be up this year, but he may be a good year away. Shew and Sosa should have been getting the ab's that Ramos was getting.

And a lot of people here aren't very good and figuring out what's a joke, and what's not. All I saw was a dude walk out there and shut down one of the best offenses in the game for 7 innings.

Oh, and just for the record, no 10th rounders taken in 2017, 2018 or 2019 made any noticeable impact in the majors, to date. So another stupid talking point dies a lonely death.

Who gets the ABs that Moose took away? I think most people here agreed the Moose signing was meant to push or replace Sheets. If there's another lefty 1B in the upper minors who suffered for those 46 PA's I'd be happy to hear about it. And it's weird that everybody, to a person, will say that Reinsdorf doesn't want to pay 2 managers, so Grifol had to stay. But Getz decided to keep him. Please don't say he should quit.

That is a demonstrably wrong statement. Getz was involved in the "development" of Robert, Jimenez, Burger, etc. If you're going to say that Getz hasn't developed anybody, you are wrong.

Proving my point further. I don't care if you give him credit or not. Turning him back into a starter again was not the obvious move. Making him closer and trading him in July was the easiest, most obvious move. Half the board, here, screamed about ramping him up in under a few years.

No you wouldn't.

Crazy that he is as inarticulate when it comes to describing his problem with Getz as Director of Development as the naysayers, here. As I look at the 2017-2020 drafts, I see pitchers who either were slowed by injury, or when they got to AAA, they were junk-ballers who could barely hang on at that level. 2018's draft is notable in that 10 players, as I've mentioned, progressed to the majors. Davis Martin would be in our starting rotation right now if not for his TJS. Steele Walker and Conner Pilkington were developed enough to trade for upgrades to the MLB roster. Cody Heuer - good arm. Traded. Weaker, later round dudes were developed to be utility or bullpen arms, as expected. AJ keeps going to the same, "aside from the successes, it's all failures" BS. Why doesn't he get to claim 1st rounders as successes? Luis Robert was developed. Jake Burger was developed. Again, I'm not "defending" Chris Getz. It's insulting to get lazy arguments that don't even make sense thrown out there and have to pretend that somebody just said something prescient, just because the mob is all shouting the same nonsensical BS.

It has been proven otherwise. Everybody screamed about hiring from within. Getz brought in people from other organizations. He's changing the focus of international scouting. We'll see what the 2024 draft looks like. But to declare it to be a continuation of Hahn/KW is just lazy. Again, I get not liking the hire, and being slow to offer any positive feedback on anything until he shows he's not a lapdog. Great. But there are clear differences in approach. Keeping Nastrini and Montgomery at AAA to further develop is one clear difference. Weird how all the people who were wailing about Nastrini making the rotation after only a small amount of AAA innings aren't stepping up and voicing their approval for starting him off in Charlotte. I get it that the Clevenger signing mutes everything else.

You mean, louder for the people chanting the same thing without offering any evidence of anything? I would love one of the experts here to point to a player - "Nate Pawelczyk. He was a can't miss staff ace, and Chris Getz drilled holes in his arm and poured weak juice in it and ruined him." Anything. I look at the 2018 draft. Right in the middle of Getz's directorship, and they had 10 draft picks make the majors. Even if they sat on the bench for a game, they made the majors. 10 guys. As opposed to, like, 2 from previous drafts. 10. The White Sox are not a good organization for acquiring and developing talent. Marco Paddy seems to be having more success than Dave Wilder, but not off the charts. Nick Hostetler seemed to be better than, I don't know... Doug Laumann? Mike Shirley seems to have more solid drafts than Hostetler did. National guys, like Keith Law are saying that the Sox have made clear advancements in areas. He was actually kind of bullish on our system in a spring interview with Jim Margalus.

Oh, then I'm sure you would have some examples where his decisions resulted in prospects not developing properly. Just repeating the same canard on different gif memes isn't really an argument. It's lazy. People who report on teams' minor league systems have written that the White Sox actually grew into an organization that develops catchers, and Keith Law cited the Sox as finally being able to develop hitters. This all happened on Chris Getz's timeclock. I get not liking the hire. I get not wanting anyone with any connection to the organization to be GM, and cleaning house. That is all perfectly reasonable. But to keep trotting out the same tired BS of "I haven't seen any successes" in an entry level position isn't really convincing. I'm not arguing that Getz is great, good, or even competent. But it gets tiresome having to pretend that every single move this team makes is tragically horrible, and then we all whine that we can no longer be White Sox fans because we're dead inside.

Can you tell us what Getz's duties were as director of player development, and how he failed? Examples, please. And then tell us what his duties were as Assistant GM, and which ones of those he failed. Seems like KW and Rick Hahn were making the decisions, then.

And a competent organization knows when to trade a pitcher at the top of his value to fill holes elsewhere on the roster. I don't remember much acknowledging of his shortcomings during that back-and-forth. In Mena's 3/31 start, he threw one pitch that hit 94 mph. He mostly topped out 91-92. His fastball didn't jump to the "mid-90's". The team he beat was the Oakland A's AAA club. Nobody on that team is top 100.

Yes, Madrigal, Vaughn, Crochet and Fulmer were all rushed. Colas. Boy, it's a good thing the people who made those decisions aren't with the organization anymore. To yell that Getz is part of the same FO, and is exactly like Hahn is silly. He was minor league director for 3-4 seasons. Weird that y'all get to argue that the entire system sucks and we really only have one minor league prospect in Montgomery, but at the same time, scream every time a future utility infielder who can't take a walk is DFAed. Everybody sucks, but we can't let one of the sucky guys go, because then we'll have zero sucky guys!! Oh, and if we're discussing successes and failures, Getz just took an often injured reliever and turned him into a staff ace. Success.

Other teams care about Seby Zavala. That's why he's on Seattle's MLB roster. Of course expectations are higher. And you have your future shortstop at AAA waiting for DeJong to go 0-29 over the course of a week for the passing of the baton. Your future 3B is at AA right now. Both will probably see playing time this season. I get being tired of this team. That doesn't mean we get to make up our own reality.

So would I. Getz just took over in August. We've already seen a change in focus internationally, where we're not hanging onto money till the end of the signing period, waiting for a Cuban to defect. I would also like to see an end of punting picks 3-10 to save money for some high school kid in the 18th round. As far as Mena, pick a lane. Either he was a good arm who rose through the system, or he was hot garbage who wasn't developed. Trading prospects to fill holes in other areas is one use of prospects.

Do you mean Sheets? There are 3 AAA relievers on the 40-man. The only other fat I could see getting trimmed, at this point, is Jared Schuster.

Which proves my point. Getz is responsible for the failures, but not the successes. A guy like Seby Zavala went from a college bat who incidentally caught, to a defense-first back-up pro catcher. His defense was developed in our system. Tanner Banks sucks? Dude, I get that there's a bunch of people here who hate Reinsdorf, and therefore, everything about this organization is bad, wrong, catastrophic. And trading Mena doesn't erase his development. I have nothing to do with Chris Getz. It is possible for people outside of the echo chamber to look at this team objectively, and see some positives.