Dan of Steel

Sadly, that's just something you're gonna have to roll the die on. Kopech has to prove he's going to be a quality addition to the rotation or that sets the rebuild back considerably. Lopez is kind of a luxury given he's basically pitching for a spot the rest of the way. I think he's finding his way to more consistent success. McCann slumped but appears to be coming out of it and still provides a very quality plate presence. Abreu, I just think we're gonna have to roll with for now. Vaughn is a hopeful 2021 addition to the ML roster. So there really isn't much in terms of immediate options outside of him. The Cubs were fortunate in 2015, because a lot of their young talent they inserted hit the ground running and it aided in their route to a 97 win season and a trip to the NLCS. The Sox need to hope Madrigal and Robert make similar impacts and some of their FA's are winners, rather than whiffs. If not, then 2020 is most likely a flash but fizzle season, where they are competitive, but likely don't have enough juice in August/September to make the push towards the playoffs.

Going strictly by raw numbers during that season compared to this season. Giolito is sitting at a 3.44 ERA on the year. Sale was at 3.41. Surprisingly, Quintana was even better that year, with a 3.36 ERA.

Considering that the "juiced ball" theory is true, there is sufficient evidence that the change of ball composition took place in 2015. And as far as the whole "bad hitters were WAY worse" theory, no they're not. Saladino, Sanchez and LaRoche were horrendous in 2015. Both squads had holes in their lineup where the OPS dropped into the low .600 or even .500. However, the 2020 squad will not be relying on any of those players posting those stats minus perhaps Sanchez for a time before Madrigal arrives. The Sox had no in-house answers to improve catcher, 2B, 3B and DH that year. The Sox have in-house solutions to every position minus RF.

LaRoche was an NL hitter and 35 years old when he signed. KW pulled an Adam Dunn 2 Electric Boogaloo. Pitching staff is an unfair comparison, since this group lost Kopech and Rodon to injury. The Sox will add Kopech to the rotation, bare minimum. Giolito is pitching at a level comparable to Sale or Quintana. Cease will continue to improve. Lopez appears to have fix his issues and is playing at a higher level. You add the possibility of adding a quality veteran arm via FA, then you have a fairer comparison regarding pitching rotations. Then combined with a superior lineup.

1) How is it "not fair"? OPS is OPS. What environment? The team plays in the same stadium as they did in 2015. 2) You change it to OPS+, confirm that the lineup in 2019 has more guys with > 100 OPS+, yet you still conclude the lineup in 2019 is worse? You want to use BA? OBP? SLG? OPS? This year's lineup is better in all facets.

You're saying that if they invested in 2020, they would be going for it before they were ready. That is utter nonsense. There is no picking and choosing when the window opens. The window to compete begins in 2020, whether they want to "go for it" or not. The clock is ticking on their core players. Robert and Madrigal are inbound in 2020. Moncada, Anderson, Jimenez, etc. are under control. The Sox also have guys like Kopech, Dunning and Rodon who are currently on the IL but are expected back in 2020. It's nothing like 2015. This is already a better lineup, with incoming support to only make it better, and an impending insertion of Kopech at the very least, with several quality veteran arms available. The results for the year may be the same, and the team may underachieve, but it wouldn't be the same result. The Sox in 2015 were not built to get much better than they were. Their ceiling was in the mid 80's at best with the talent assembled, even accounting for peak Chris Sale and Quintana. The lineup should be stabilized in 2020, and the pitching staff has a ton of room to grow with returning players and young arms improving. Really it comes down to this. You think the Sox should hold off until 2021, but the fact is that the Sox can't afford to play it safe.

What? Here was the lineup in 2015: C Tyler Flowers 1B: Jose Abreu 2B: Yolmer Sanchez 3B: Tyler Saladino SS: Alexei Ramirez LF: Melky Cabrera CF: Adam Eaton RF: Avi Garcia DH: Adam LaRoche That's a lineup consisting of only 3 players 25 y/o or young (Sanchez, Saladino and Garcia) of which, only Garcia had anything close to resembling high-level prospect hype. That lineup only had 3 players with an OPS above .700. That is beyond horrible. Eaton and Abreu were the only guys with above average OPS (.792 and .850 respectively). To put that in perspective, this year's lineup has 6 players with OPS above .700. The three in the lineup with sub .700 OPS? Ryan Cordell, Yolmer Sanchez and Yonder Alonzo. One guy will be relegated to utility man (best case) when Madrigal is called up. One guy is a spacefiller for a PTBNL at RF. The last name was released and is no longer on the team. The lineup as currently constructed, despite the holes, is already leagues better than 2015. You add Madrigral, Robert and a decent RF to that lineup? There's practically zero comparison.

This team should make the necessary upgrades, plus adding guys like Kopech, Madrigal and Robert. This team should be at least .500 in 2020. Don't know what a playoff number of wins would be. Sometimes 86 is enough, sometimes 90 isn't.

I think it's absolute BS he ended up with 3 ERs. 2 at best, but really 2 of his 3 runs were on bad defense.

Lopez's turnaround has been one of a very few silver linings of an otherwise brutally frustrating 2nd half of the year.

Bad call. Out.

Lopez and Cease shoring up on the mound has been reassuring. But what in the unholy f*ck has happened to the bats? I think they've scored less runs since the All-Star break than they have games lost.

Giolito is going to have a dominant pitching effort wasted.

Yeah, I'm done with Renteria. He's done his job. He's the John Fox for the White Sox. Help boost the locker room, develop the youngins. Time to step aside and let someone with a better tactical baseball mind take the helm.

My bad, that was meant for Adolfo. However Basabe spent a good portion of this season rehabbing from a broken bone in his hand.

Anderson's absence is a huge reason why the offense has stagged considerably. But the damage is done. This team was a long shot to compete for a WC bid prior to his injury, the pipedream is all but dead. If he's not 100%, no point to play him.

There was an entire thread dedicated to that stretch and most anticipated that the Sox would be lucky to finish better than 7-15 during that stretch. That's far from "picking and choose". 22 games is about a quarter of the season up until the break, with the team near .500. That was the point.

I mean, Adolfo and Basabe are out for the year, so they don't have an OPS to count towards. Rutherford's numbers are bogged down by his atrocious start to the year, but has improved drastically over the past 2 months. Same with Gonzalez, who struggled but has come on strong as of late.

Very true. Health has been a big problem with this rebuild so far. Not a death knell yet.

Okay then, Ian Hamilton, Jonathan Stiever, Steele Walker, Micker Adolfo, Luis Basabe, Blake Rutherford, Luis Gonzalez, outside of the list of bonafide studs. Considering all the guys either already up on the team or on the IL, that's a quality list.

Bull. Just 100% absolute Grade-A bull. From June 10th to the All-Star Break, that was the stretch that most claimed was going to send the White Sox into the cellar. That stretch had: - 2 games v. the Nats (57-49) *1st place NL WC - 4 games v. the Yankees (67-38) *1st place AL East / Best record in AL / 2nd best record overall - 2 games v. the Cubs (56-49) *Tied for 1st place in NL Central - 3 games v. the Rangers (53-53) - 3 games v. the Red Sox (59-48) - 3 games v. the Twins (64-41) *1st place AL Central / 4th best record overall - 3 games v. the Tigers (30-71) - 2 games v. the Cubs (56-49) *Tied for 1st place in NL Central That's 22 games, of which only 3 came against a team below .500. Hell, only 6 of them came against teams that are not currently either in the playoff hunt or at the head of the pack. Don't feed us this crap that they had a soft schedule coming off the toughest stretch of the season and making through it with a respectable record.

Sites have the Sox farm system ranked in the top 10 pretty much across the board. Madigral, Robert and Vaughn are big names. But Dunning and Kopech are set to return, plus Alec Hansen. Yeah, stacked. A tad top heavy perhaps, but stacked nonetheless.

Hear hear. This stretch sucks majorly. That being said, you put it perfectly when you said, this team is three bats short in a lineup that's already three bats short, and 2 arms short with 2 arms short already. The Sox are a paper thin roster as is, and then you remove possibly their 5 best players for big stretches, that's gonna be a rough ride.

That's not how it works. You're the one making the claim that the optimism should be doubted, so the burden of proof is actually on YOU. Someone has debunked your brief correctly. It's now your job to try and debunk his proof. As someone else correctly posted, 26-40 is pretty much irrelevant. Of the 23 players you mentioned, pretty much all of them won't be on the team in 2020, much less 2021. So to use that list to doubt the future is not a strong platform to support your argument. The Sox farm is stacked and there's a lot of guys currently on the IL (I mean A LOT) that will be off it in 2020. Plenty of talent that is still waiting in the wings. Just have to look a little.

Even high quality aces have bad outings, and against the best hitting team in the league, it's not all that surprising. People are just looking for something, anything, to hang their hopes on during a really brutal stretch of baseball and the one guy who was having a consistently great season, is hitting a rough patch. This team has taking a huge step back after the All-Star break and nobody is really playing well right now. Having a bad stretch with no silver lining is a terrible feeling.