Look at Ray Ray Run

Yeah, I could buy that. It's amazing how the Sox pioneered one of the best health driven organizations in MLB baseball, and the Bulls are one of the worst in all of sports. It's amazing they're owned by the same guy given how differently they view the importance. I will never forget this team almost killing Luol Deng and then acting like he did something wrong.

Yes, this is true; they don't even tank correctly... but they still had avenues to contention had they drafted the obvious choice at the time. The Bulls didn't want the risk tied to MPJ as if they were within their contention window or something. Just absurd.

There's nothing wrong with picking 7 if you DO IT RIGHT! I wasn't on this board at the time, but I was livid that the Bulls took WCJ with MPJ on the board. Porter had huge risk - he was coming off a serious back injury and would likely miss his entire rookie season... who cares though? MPJ was the ONLY player on the board with superstar potential and in the NBA, when drafting, that is literally all that matters to a rebuilding team. It's amazing how good the Nuggets are in the draft doing what every team should be doing; Mitchell had the highest offensive upside in the draft... after Fultz and Tatum at the time. Nuggets get him late; then they get a superstar with MPJ without investing anything but one year of rehab. It's inexcusable that the Bulls didn't draft Porter - Porter was the best US player in the draft that year from a ceiling standpoint (Trea was right there as well and I could buy an argument for either one at the time). The Bulls pass on those talents for higher floor/safer players when they desperately need elite level talents to infuse into their roster. If the Bulls had Lavine and MPJ, they're looking at a potential 1-2 that could compete with others.

I love that, but it seems I'm in the minority.

No one is exaggerating. They're awful.

Konerko took less money than was offered elsewhere to remain with the team and organization. Also, who cares? It's their job/career. I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

I agree the bottom half is really bad, but it's been really bad before without the top 6 being as dominant as they've been. I actually think the Bucks might be the favorites to win it all; Lakers obviously right there - I actually like Denver to come out of the west IF MPJ can start taking on 35 minutes a night but they are certainly dogs.

The top 6 teams in the East are better this year than theyve ever been, arguably. I believe this would be the first time in EC history that 6 teams had a winning % north of .630. I dont think you can call the conference terrible or bad given that.

Yeah, I agree with this - I'm not sure what to think of it, as this is what Paddy clearly excels preaches but the execution hasn't been there. Hopefully that'll change. I still think the White Sox feel morally uncomfortable in this market, but that is pure skepticism and coming from no actual knowledge.

So the players don't matter to you at all and are just assets? Glad we could sort that out, and on that note I'll go ahead and concede from this conversation as we share dramatically different views on the enjoyment of being a fan.

Yeah, but if the White Sox win the World Series and Jose Abreu plays a big part, that will be far more enjoyable for me - that he got to experience and contribute to something he dedicated time and effort into - than a revolving door of players that fans gain zero connection with over an extended period of time. You also evaded my question. Would you have enjoyed that moment and memory as much had it been achieved by a revolving door of first baseman over the previous decade?

4 WAR at one position, is far more valuable than 4-5 WAR between two positions. I'll also take the over on Moncada's STEAMER projection assuming health.

So your White Sox memories pertain to the team and not the players? Interesting take. If you replaced Paul Konerko every year with a player of similar production but a different name, you don't think that would have made the 2005 World Series less enjoyable? I absolutely think that it would have. Part of the enjoyment of fanhood is seeing a guy like Konerko dedicate his career to the city and organization, and come up big on the biggest stage in the biggest moment. Would the grand slam have felt as awesome had it been hit by a rotating 1st base piece? I would say no. Part of the joy came from seeing a guy I followed for a decade - a guy whose loyalty, community interaction, and class were second to none - succeed in the biggest moment for a team he did so much for. My memories of the game revolve around player accomplishments, not ownership moves.

And furthermore; If Yoan Mocada, Giolito, Kopech, Anderson, and Luis Robert are 200-300+ million dollar players - with Vaughn and Mad at 100-200+ - then the White Sox are fielding a historically great team.

No, I wouldn't entertain any trade for the 24 year old franchise cornerstone entering the contention window. You realize prospects aren't guaranteed successes, right? The fact that the Sox hit homeruns on all their big trades was as much luck as it was skill/evaluation. That doesn't typically happen. There have been countless stars traded for complete crap over the last 2 decades of baseball.

Yes, the Sox very clearly signed these FA's to deals that were 3-4 years in length knowing that some of the core will be set to be paid at that point. They have a plan to retain. Odds that every player the Sox have becomes a 200+ million dollar star really isn't all that high. If that does happen, then this team won multiple WS or made multiple trips, generating plenty of revenue for the organization to retain those guys.

Robert and Eloy aren't even something you need to worry about for 7 years. Yoan is due to get paid in 3-4 years. Those windows really don't effect each other much, as some other big salaries are coming off the books at that 4 year point. The key for the White Sox is continued development on the farm - replacing some higher end FA's with cost effective youth - which will allow them to retain anyone of their core.

Jerry has given me zero reason to think he would not retain a star player. He hasn't kept every single one of them, but he has rewarded his own more than he has not.

I mean, he has been a guess hitter his whole life. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a guess hitter; some of the best hitters in MLB history were guess hitters. Thomas was a classic guess hitter - which is why he was off-balance so often on those ass out, flip to right field knocks. Thomas was so good that he could adjust when he was off and keep his hands back, but he's one of the best hitters in MLB history and he was a guess hitter. Abreu is another guess hitter, although his hands aren't as good as Thomas' so he can look even worse on things he's wrong on. There are only two types of hitters in MLB baseball; guess hitters and reaction hitters. There are successes and failures for each. Edit: I also don't love the term "guess hitter." Theyir guesses are based on trends and tendencies that they study. They're technically "guessing" but they're educated guesses. Also, you can be a guess hitter who is better at identifying balls and strikes - like Thomas - so you don't see as many dreadful swings on balls way out of the zone like Jose.

I'm going to get really aggressive with this projections, but I see: 305/355/605

White Sox haven't even made the playoffs yet, and fans are having in-depth discussions about trading a 24 year old budding Superstar to get younger unproven players. Someone please make it stop.

Yeah, I'd say it might even end up being 60 million. With the way the luxury tax number has escalated YOY, by the time the Sox have to pay them they'd still have a payroll 30-40 million under the tax figure. If the team is winning, the tax figure should mean nothing as the team should still generate revenue to offset that cost. If they lose a few million for a few years, who gives a shit? They just netted 80+ million dollars last year on a shit roster and a shit product. They have made endless amounts of money for decades.

SMH

The Sox absolutely can afford every single young player they have if they want to. The Sox payroll today is still well below the average and median league payroll. The Sox could extend Giolito and Moncada at market rates and still have a payroll well below the luxury tax line. I'm not being unrealistic. The game has record revenues, and you're concerned about the owners checkbook more than the fans enjoyment and desires. What a sad way to be a fan. Jerry Reinsdorf could lose 30 million dollars a year over the next 10 years and he still would have made over 1.2 billion dollars on the White Sox.