Look at Ray Ray Run

Caufield, I'm going to go ahead and assume (I could be wrong) that I have a much stronger grasp on the economic impact of trickle down economics on wealth distribution than you do here. If you want to have a serious discussion on this, you can PM me as I won't pollute this forum further with this discussion. I have no idea how you can look at stagnated middle class and lower class wages going on 4 DECADES, with a near 1000% increase to the top bracket, and think trickle down economics is beneficial to anyone in a non-executive position. The number one driver of middle class wage escalation is what Caufield? Minimum wage. The war the politicians have created between middle class and poor people have stunted the growth of both entities. As minimum wage escalates (it was once at a level that was equal to a livable wage, CRAZY), so do middle class salaries. Since our federal minimum wage has greatly declined in relation to the cost of living, the middle class has stagnated as well. As states like Washington raise their minimum wage to $15/hr, the middle class has in turn seen a 1 year escalation on average income greater than any state that has not made the same change. While you get angry at someone at McDonalds making $15/hr, you fail to understand the immense benefit that has on the middle class. I wrote a thesis on this exact topic. The falsification and war on the middle class waged by trickle down bullshitters.

What? This is not true or accurate. Do not confuse wealth distribution - which was much better in the 60's and 70's - to safe working conditions. Workers have more rights pertaining to discrimination and others; they work in safer environments, and they have more power to hold their bosses accountable for inappropriate and wrong actions... but the distribution of wealth is significantly worse since the implementation of fake "trickle down economics" in the late 70's early 80's.

First, let me say I agree with your premise. Owners aren't going to stop treating this like a business - in many cases, it's the largest investment they've ever made and asking them to treat it as a non-money making entity goes against everything that got them where they are.... but, I do find it incredibly ironic that while they run the PnL sector like your standard business, they do throw out a lot of other wise business decisions in the name of fan pressures - such as stability. Great companies have great stability at the top level; just because you have the 5th best CEO in the world doesn't mean you should fire him to try and find the 4th best, in fact you should never take that risk. In sports though? You could have a top 10 coach or GM and you fire him in hopes of getting the best. It's an irrational way of doing business, as stability is much more correlated to success than constant and endless turnover is.

Its theo's fault they dont have a farm lol. Its inexcusable for a major market team to rebuild and cry poor twice in 10 years. I have no idea why fans accept this bullshit from filthy rich ownership groups. The cubs have no problem spending millions and millions developing the area around the ballpark. Yet, when it comes to the team they cry poor. Their payroll situation lol? Something else theo created. When the yankees have dead contracts they dont tell the fans they cant try because of them.

You think the Marlins fall was a standard drop off after a WS title? What? They had the worst year in baseball history following a WS. One time (the red sox) he was brought in to "go win a WS." You cant give the guy credit for the Red Sox World Series (as putting them over the edge with someone elses players) and the 2003 Marlins world series. Those things are polar opposites.

No. I'm not at all. It's the exact same thing Dave did with the 97 Marlins and the exact same thing he did with the red sox. If he built a team for sustained success in miami (young and controllable) please tell me how they won 54 games the year after they won a world series. Everywhere dave leaves turns to complete shit. Now you're blaming jerry for Kenny williams thought process? Theres nothing about Kenny that signified he wanted to focus on development and not veterans.

Yes, neither could succeed in the modern game as the sole/lead decision makers without an inordinate amount of resources. Both williams and dombrowski would have succeeded with that red sox roster. Both dombrowski and Williams would make trades that placed far too much weight on present day value. It's not a feasible way to maintain success in the modern game but it doesn't mean you cant win that way ever. My point here is people defend dombrowski while ridiculing Williams - not you it seems - and I don't understand how someone could make a case for one without thinking the other was good as well.

The premise of both there styles was similar; prospects are overrated and valued and their sole purpose was to acquire proven veterans. The sox also weren't exactly a small market team in williams tenure. They didn't spend at Detroit's level but they also didn't penny pinch with the mlb roster.

Well if you cant see the similarities between the two and their styles idk what to tell you bud. Williams and dombrowski competed in the same era for the same players. Williams won a world series and had a better winning % over a 13 year period in which fans here are praising dombrowski. Saying dombrowski won more world series while ignoring the fact that he has more than 2 times as many years as GM is not being statistically honest.

When you cant dispute facts, you resort to... awards lol. Kenny Williams won more games in 1 less year than dombrowski did in detroit. Kenny williams won a world series. Kenny Williams had smaller budgets.

Dombrowski = 0 world series in Detroit. Dombrowski = 1 WS for every 16 years as GM. Kenny William's = 1 WS for every 13 years as GM.

Awesome, and my point remains. Dave Dombroski is just another Kenny Williams. Sox fans cant spend a decade complaining about Williams while praising dombrowski.

I cant think of a worse way to spend 12 million dollars than on a manager.

Kenny Williams career record as White Sox GM 1080-1026. Dave Dombrowksi record as Tigers GM 1082-1123. Dombrowski is a great builder of sustained success in Detroit. Kenny Williams is a hack who knows nothing. Signed, Sox talk.

The tigers are still paying, to this day, for the "sustained success" dombrowski built. The sustained success that netted them zero titles and revolved solely around giving big free agent contracts. Dombrowski had a losing record over 14 seasons as the head man in detroit. Its funny, people hate kenny William's but in his 13 years as GM the Sox won a World Series, had a winning record, and made 3 playoff appearances. Oh and kenny only had 3 losing seasons in 13 years - less than dave. Sox fans tell everyone how bad Williams is while they praise dombrowski. Kenny did it with less money as well. The hypocrisy is comical.

This made me chuckle; the Cubs are going to "rebuild" again as the 3rd richest team in the sport. They already made their fans sit through a 4 year rebuild despite being incredibly profitable. Now they want them to go through another one. Teams like the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox don't "rebuild." It's amazing to me that fans just accept this concept from a big market team as if there's nothing wrong with it.

Again though, I challenge anyone to show me an example of the players not liking Renteria. I don't understand why people don't think this is the most important aspect of a manager.

Where did I move the goalposts? I said Dombrowski doesn't build organizations with sustained success - I said he relies on veterans, and trades all his prospects to obtain those veterans; similarly to a Kenny Williams type approach. The Marlins won a World Series in 1997, and in 1998 they won 54 games and '99 they won 64. Of the 2011 Tigers, how may of those players do you think were drafted by Dombrowski in Detroit? Of the 2013 Tigers, how many were homegrown? Spoiler alert; not many. Edit: And for those that say the Marlins made him get rid of everyone and cut payroll... well, that wouldn't be a problem if his team wasn't littered with aging veterans.

This was one of my favorite, non-important, moments I've had as a White Sox fan. This Mofo got hit in the fvcking face, stayed in the game, and tee'd off. It felt even better knowing that Pavano is a complete asshat.

So only 3 of the 4 huge contracts he gave out were bad in Detroit. Got it. The 1997 Marlins won with Veterans - the average age of the team was 29 years old. Their starting rotation didn't have a single home grown talent, and of the position players that impacted the roster, only Charles Johnson was a ++ player that was drafted and developed by Dombrowski. Dombrowski is a FA/trade first GM who hit some home runs - absolutely - but he portraying him as some organizational builder through the draft is disingenuous.

You said exactly that about Sale, I literally quoted your post. And they didn't draft Sale to be a reliever for 2010. Just stop. Who gives a shit if they had doubters? If anything, that is a positive for the White Sox but you spin it negatively.

What? He said Maddon won in two places - he didn't. He had the talent to win in Tampa, and didn't win. Maddon has had some incredibly talented rosters in his managerial career, and he got the team across the finish line once. He's not a terrible manager and he's not a great one. He's just another guy among all the others running a team.

Domborwski is a lot like Kenny Williams with bigger budgets. The style can clearly work in the short term, but the insistence on building your team with veterans by trading away all your prospects is not a viable way of maintaining sustained success at the big league level.

Manager's manage people - that is their most important attribute. This team just went through miserable years, and you never heard a negative word come out of that clubhouse. People can chose to ignore that all they'd like, but after witnessing the Ventura debacle, and the embarrassment it caused this organization, I have no idea how people can just ignore this aspect of the game. It was very telling, and showed that the players like Ricky and support/defend/play hard for him. That is 99% of his job.

Maddon had the best roster in baseball in TB and won nothing. He didn't "win" with two organizations any more than Jerry Manual won with the White Sox.