Look at Ray Ray Run

I certainly don't value hitting/pitching coaches quite to the level of some here, but Menechino may see something within Mazara that he thinks he can change as well. Menechino has had a positive effect on a few hitters in his career.

There are certainly valid reasons to be upset and concerned by this deal. Cons: The White Sox have not shown a very good ability of scouting big league players; identifying ones that would respond to their philosophies and teachings. In fact, I think MLB scouting is one of the teams weakest departments - MiLB scouting has actually been pretty good, based on their return of minor league players in trades. This would lead you to be concerned that they actually could identify something within Mazara that they could fix to get more out of his tools than he currently is getting out of them. I understand that concern, and I share that concern. I'm taking the believe it when I see it mentality when it comes to Mazara. Pros: Steele Walker is just a guy; his power didn't play up in A+ and it certainly won't play up at AA. There's a very real chance that by this time next year, Walker is a worthless asset. The Sox currently have, possibly, 3 guys ahead of him in their organization (Adolfo, Rutherford, Basebe). You could even make the argument that Luis Gonzalez is ahead of him. Everyone knew the White Sox had a plethora of OF assets - none of which took the necessary step forward last year, leaving us to trust the Sox evaluation on those players but as I said above, I trust their MiLB valuations more than their MLB ones. There's also no doubt that Mazara has big time tools; always has. Can he get more out of those tools is the question. It's a fair gamble for 5.7 million. He's going to be the teams 6-7 hitter. In general, this is a low risk move with a potential big reward. It really shouldn't take you out of anything else that would have been a home run move for the organization. Mazara has seen his hard hit % and .iso steadily climb over the past few years. He's going to be 25 years old; most guys are just arriving to the show, so to use his 4 years of MLB results against him has never made sense to me. He has been developing in the big leagues while guys like Walker were playing college baseball. Just because you are in the minors or in college does not mean that you are going to develop more than a player that is already in the big leagues. In fact, I'd argue the opposite.

Pretty sure they didnt trade for him with the expectation that he'll continue to be a 1 WAR player.

Fair enough. I know you and CWS were really high on Walker so I understand your frustrations.

His hard hit % has gone up significantly every year for the past 4 years. Results havent been there yet, but theres certainly been some underlying improvements.

Said yesterday the one thing this team has been missing in this rebuild is a diamond in the ruff. Theyve swung and missed so far, but if the white sox internal valuations on walker was that he was the 4th best RF prospect they had, and they see something they thing they can get out of mazara then you make this trade everytime. As long as they continue to acquire pieces and spend some more money, this is fine.

Oh my. Come on man. Castellanos is one of the worst defensive outfielders in recent history. Mazara is an average to slightly below average fielder. These two are nothing alike.

I don't really agree with this. We'll have to see what Castellanos and ozuna sign for first. Everyone's citing WAR while crying about not spending 75 million on Castellanos lol. Castellanos doesnt really grade much better than mazara - certainly not through his age 24 season.

Yeah? Wtf. If they're not spending in RF they better be spending somewhere. We didnt sit through a miserable decade where the sox spent nothing so they could to cheap and then still spend nothing when the rebuild is ending.

Yeah, hes not a horrible defender no matter how many times people argue otherwise. Trade is fine assuming they're not done. I really dont understand why people think once you're in the big leagues you cant get better but minor leaguers will get much better. I've never understood that premise. The kid being in the big leagues at 20 shouldnt be held against him. Not in love with the move if hes all their doing. Dont mind the move if they do more. Fans always love their prospects more than they should. As someone else said, people are all high on basebe and Walker developing and they're like 1 year younger than mazara.

2nd mystery team still in the high stakes bidding for Cole. ? Lol

You love walker. Giving up stiever would be absurd. Giving up walker is whatever. I said I'm not a fan of the move, but if it predicates a bigger move because it's a cheaper option than Ozuna/Castellanos then I'm good with the gamble. Mazara isnt a talentless bum. He'd be worth the move if something bigger opened up due to it. that's the only thing I said.

He specifically said bring up when you're rolling. They just don't have that many spots on the diamond. SS, LF, CF, C, 1B and 3B are filled. 2B, RF, and DH is all you got. If Madrigal and Vaughn are the guys there, then they dont really need prospect push for another 4-5 years to replace pieces.

Sounds like Hahn does not want to move Madrigal or Vaughn. Those are the only two prospects youd really worry about being a part of it when you're rolling. Edit: robert is a god not a prospect

I mean, Rutherford doesnt have a single better tool than mazara.

Theres really no evidence that DRS is a superior fielding metric than UZR/150. I certainly wouldnt ignore his DRS, which is why i said hes still below average despite his dead average UZR/150. He's not as bad as DRS says and he's not as good as UZR/150 more than likely. Teams, I imagine, have even better fielding valiation tools.

If they can take on a bigger pitching contract and sign a ryu or even a bumgarner (won't happen as I dont think either side are interested) because they do this, then I'm all for it.

Yeah, that's why I said 2 of the past 4 years. Given that he's only 25, you're probably best using his career number which is a 0.

I have no issues with Mazara if the money is being spent big somewhere else. That would actually be a smart gamble if that was the plan.

Hes graded out + in UZR twice in the past 4 years. -4 DRS past two years - that's not good but I dont think its fair to say hes terrible. Hes literally a net 0 in UZR/150 for his career.

Yeah, the bottom part is the big thing for me. If they're going to save money in RF too, where are they going to spend? They better be landing somethibg big if they're going the cheap route in right as well.

Fake Sources: Sox trade Luis Gonzalez and guy for Nomara Mazara. Fake sources: Sox trade Nick Madrigal for David Price and JDM. Fake sources: Sox sign Anthony Rendon. Off season complete.

Seems to me the sox may be balking at a Walker level return based on that tweet. Who knows though.

Walker wasn't even worthy of the big leagues at the same age. I get the control argument, but control only matters if the guy is actually gonna make it. Maybe they'd be doing them a favor and maybe mazara improves as a 25 year old. That wouldnt be a crazy thing.

I mean... you're holding being in the big leagues by the same age as Walker was as a sophomore in college against him. Walker would have been significantly worse in the MLB even last year than mazara was as a 20 year old.