Look at Ray Ray Run

Also, I admittedly judge people who post shit like this on social media: What you do speaks louder than what you say, but let me say something anyway and post for the world to see! The guy also lists former hitting coach of Mizzou in his profile when the guy never even coached a single player there.

Yes, this is a great point and something I never thought about before.

They seemed to be caught up by not wanting to assign a title that would imply he is higher up than those he was trying to guide/assist/change. That part seemed like semantics to me. At the end of the day, it was his job to get people to buy in and I am guessing messaging was the issue here. You work in IT; I think you understand where I'm going. People trust you, and what you have to say, but they don't understand it if you don't speak a language they can relate to. I have people at my job who hate numbers (ironic and sad given the industry) and my job - at times - is to build presentations for that audience. Part of that job is to speak in a way they can relate and understand to gain their confidence in what I am saying. As I said, no one is breaking down Matt Lisle's door. Smart individual instructor, and maybe that's just all he is.

Price ZIPS projection puts him under 6 WAR over the next 3 years. FG's, which admittedly didn't project pitching contracts well this off-season, said Price would likely get a 1-2 year deal under 30 million if he signed today. Price is underwater because he's always hurt, and he's old, but he's owed a ton of money. Nothing about this off-season changed the worth of Price.

And he failed at assisting them with understanding and accepting it. Not all professionals in the working world speak the same lingo, and it's really important to speak to your audience to get them to buy into your change. Data is not enough to drive change; language and personality play a huge part of it. The organization was clearly willing to start integrating this, but Lisle apparently wasn't the best fit. Are they late to the party? Absolutely... but does the firing of Lisle signify they've quit on the mission? Of course not.

It actually sounded like the exact opposite; Giolito gave praise to Coopers willingness to evolve and change - something the White Sox fans will say isn't true. Gio very clearly said that Coop had bought all in with them, and was helping them.

Matt Lisle is not a dumb baseball man by any means, but can we stop with the over portrayal of his skill set? He's a softball coach right now; other "analytic" friendly organizations aren't exactly busting down his door. Matt Lisle is a good individual instructor, as of right now that's all he is. The Sox need more technology, and I am happy he tried to push it, but it's very possible he wasn't a great messenger and messaging is every bit as important as the data itself. These are the type of "the sky is falling" takes on the White Sox I just can't buy into.

You are correct, I was exaggerating like a dope. Still 13 months between them.

Think what you must about Hahn, but theres no chance he thought price and benetendi for Madrigal and Vaughn was the enticing offer he discussed.

This is nuts. Benetendi isnt worth more than the 45 million price is underwater. The sox would basically be throwing another 20 million into the deal by including madrigal or Vaughn. If they include both, those two are certainly more valuable than benetendi and we have to eat prices money? Lol. Price isnt worth either of those guys, not even close. You give me Eduardo rodriguez and Price and maybe we talk Madrigal but there would still need to be big money coming back to the sox and I dont trust them to spend it so pass.

Robert 3 years younger than Walker and had an OPS of about 1000000000 at the same level where Walker was fine but not great.

No Idea if this is even in the cards, but after reading the FG piece on Price and seeing they have him as 45 million underwater I'd love Eduardo Rodriguez and Price in a salary dump.

And Yes, Jerry has me very conflicted on him because I would love to work for a guy like him - which is how I judge most businesses - and honestly he seems like a great guy to those who work for him. That's a really honorable trait; I just wish he showed the same sense of loyalty and appreciation for the fans as he does his employees.

I will say this about Machado, I hope everyone silences their absurd "if other teams were involved" nonsense. Clearly, the Yankees, Dodgers, Rangers, Angels and on and on had plenty of money to spend. If they wanted Machado, they would have went out there and got him. Fact remains, a lot of teams didn't think Machado was worth the money he got, and I'm fine with that. I was more upset with how they handled the situation than I was with the end result.

This is where I think someone like Ricky Renteria does matter a tiny bit. Ricky is mentally challenged in terms of strategic managing, but it's hard to argue with the culture he breeds in the clubhouse. I am actually fine with Mazara, but only if it means they are going to use resources elsewhere. If they went cheap there just to be cheap, that kind of sucks.

Sure, but the difference between the HOF and not for Billy Pierce was the wins. He was every bit as good as Whitey Ford, but his team never got over the hump. The White Sox weren't miserable back then, but their offense wasn't good enough to support Billy's W/L record, and that was all that mattered back then. Billy came up ONE vote shy of the HOF. If he wins one title, or has 1 more 20 win season (say the season he was 15-10 with a 1.9 ERA!), he likely gets in. The margins for Billy making it and not was so slim, and his teams production is likely what cost him. Remember, there weren't 5 playoff teams then. I'm also not saying the White Sox were just as bad then as they are today.

I'm merely saying, if the Sox miss next year and make it the 2-3 years after, it's pretty much the same as the Astros making, then missing, and then making it 3 years in a row.

I will never enjoy horrible outfield defense. If you are a professional baseball player and you are a worst defender than I was, that's pretty embarrassing and I don't really enjoy watching that. It's the same reason I hate NL baseball, why are pitchers hitting? They aren't professional hitters.

Sure, but it doesn't change the premise that winning will always be more fun than losing. Billy Pierce was a great man; his team losing cost him a spot in the Hall of Fame. To listen to him talk about the White Sox throughout my childhood was always a treat; he had nothing negative to say about his time as a big leaguer or the team, but losing cost him the honor and praise he deserved. Losing has an impact on things, however small it may be in the grand scheme of life. I grew up loving the White Sox because of the respect they showed to someone like Billy; I admired their sense of family and loyalty. There are things I appreciate about the organization - their treatment of their own has always been positive - but there are also things I just hate in life and that's people who over promise and under deliver.

Come on, winning is always more fun than losing. Sports is about having fun. Losing to the degree this team has lost has been miserable; don't ask your fan base to suffer through that if you don't intend on rewarding them at the end of the tunnel when the light starts shining through. I don't know what year you played baseball through, but I can tell you that my years in which we won were certainly more fun than the years in which we lost. I developed bonds and relationships regardless, that I will have for life which is the point of this all, but it's nice to have a bond developed from success instead of failure.

I agree with this, but this is all for naught if they don't try to capitalize on these pieces. Watching Gio pitch was a thing of beauty and was very enjoyable. But we deserve that, and shouldn't be grateful for it. Sports don't effect me emotionally in a way that it brings me down or demoralizes me, but the joy that it brings during pennant runs and the time it fills during slower summer months is much more enjoyable than the opposite. I still talk about the Sox the same with my uncles and father; I still have season tickets with my uncle specifically, but it sucks watching Daniel Palka and Adam Engle and Dylan Covey. I don't know what to tell you, but I expect people to do their jobs and try to succeed to the same level I do.

I don't think all hope is lost; this team is lucky enough that amazingly their big trade pieces have almost all panned out. Kopech and Cease are TBD; but they are clearly high talent big leaguers with some longevity in their futures barring injury. Eloy and Moncada look like stars. Lopez looks like an, at worst, serviceable big league arm. Dunning is entirely TBD. Robert is like a walking statue of what a great baseball player should look like. This team isn't dead in the water because they have a lot of high end talent, but I'm losing face in the organization to maximize that talent. I'm still willing to give them another year, but I don't want to spend hours watching complete garbage again. Can't imagine how disappointing it would be to be in the Cubs position of possibly moving a HOF'er because they claim they can't afford him while having elite revenue numbers. Fans are being taken for a ride by ownerships league wide. Owners have never opened the books, and I can assure you it's for very good reason.

People who grow up don't care about their family and things they enjoy with their family anymore? Weird stuff. You spend hours on this message board, as do many of us, debating and arguing over something that only a child should care about according to you. The day sharing a common interest with your family and enjoying those moments - while wanting to have more of the successful ones - becomes something childish I will be long gone.

You're just wrong, but whatever makes you feel better. If your only view on ROI in life is monetary, then I feel sorry for you. Sports aren't the same to everyone; I spent my life playing and following the game with my father. It was the #1 thing we bonded over for 30 years. Maybe to you, that's nothing but to many those things matter. The Sox may not owe me, directly, anything... but as I said, I sure as hell can express my frustrations with a product that I've invested a lot of time and money into.

This isn't a movie. Comparing those two things is laughable. Baseball is a huge time investment. Fanhood for many is a lifetime of commitment and support to something that they have no control over. It's a community of like minded people; it's a family bond and memory creating activity. It's something to tell stories about for years with your father and grandfather. Movies are something you do to pass an afternoon; baseball is something you do to pass a lifetime.