Look at Ray Ray Run

Cool so you named one team who has developed more. KC? Minnesota? Yankees? Red Sox? Cubs? Astros? And on and on A lot of pretty good teams that never came close to developing a Sale/Quintana/Giolito set. Being critical of developing 3 TOR arms in a decade is nuts.

Yeah because hes shown so many signs of aging... he lost almost all his velocity and has barely missed a beat.

Everyone isnt overpaid in free agency. Some guys drum up more market than others. If bum signed for 4 years, 82 million could one really argue that 6/125 for wheeler made sense? I dont like Bumgarner at all and wheeler is probably my top target this off season and I think that's a bit much. Ftr, I want wheeler. I'd give him the money because I have an absurdly high projection and forecast for him, and think he can outpitch strasberg in this contract. I just also know that my valuation is really high and based on what wheeler has actually done, and his set of most likely outcomes, it could be argued to be a significant overpay.

That's a lot, ftr. I think you somehow meant your bottom paragraph as a shot at the team but its actually a compliment.

Sure, but the aging curve for guys like wheeler isnt great. It doesnt mean there arent the max Scherzer and justin Verlander of the world but they are few and far between.

Greinke just got traded for real assets. Nothing about his contract ever said dead money. Stop moving the goal posts. I said you didnt have to wastefully spend in FA to win a world series. That was my point. The Astros didnt do that.

With his velocity I think you're basically getting 3 years of + production from wheeler... with health risk attached to that. Year 4 would be blah and 5 dead. If you think 6 is a dead year too it's tough to give that money for 3 + years of performance.

Dick, how is this giving extra years and spending wastefully in free agency? I'll hang up and listen.

Yup. If it's under 5/110 the sox have no excuse. If its 6+ or 120-125, I get it.

If kenny says it, it's going down. Sounds like Phillies beat offer last night, have a day to counter and that'll be that. Sox decide how much their willing to push it today. If they set out to get wheeler and committed to.beat the market then nothing to worry about. If they had a valuation they were maxed at, phillies and reds could have beat it.

They certainly didnt trade for 6 years of them.

Lol people thinking the bidding process works like an Ebay auction.

What crazy, wasteful contract have the Astros signed?

That's not really how agents work. There isnt a buy it now button in free agency. Grandal sat out there for months and didnt get what he wanted. Him jumping at his offer isnt surprising.

For people who want a reason to remain optimistic... dont forget that absurdly dumb story by Boob yesterday where he, for no reason that makes sense, said the sox are willing to up there offer if needed.

Based on the failure of last year and the money invested in their roster. Reds still worry me more than anyone. Both those teams could go 6/130 which would simply be a bad contract.

How did they overplay their hand and how did they "let another team get involved?" Do you think they could force someone to sign?

I mean, if Ryu is going for 3/50 or 3/60, wheeler really doesn't warrant twice as much money. Great teams and organizations stick to their valuations.

Should of seen this coming after the arrogance permeating from the organization about this. They always look like doped when they start getting excited.

Sounds to me like Phillies went to 6. Sox should try to get creative - maybe an opt out after 3 years instead of going to 6. 6 years for a guy with his injury history and for a guy who really relies heavily on throwing 98 mph is pretty risky.

You dont have to be wasteful to win a world series.

This is pure nonsense.

The Jake Peter and the Josh Phegly outrage have been, by far, my two favorite White Sox fan overreaction of the past couple decades

It's not my money and I'm not responsible for the outcome, so as a fan who cares - I just want him. I think Wheeler up at 110 is the tippy top of his market. 125 is just too much past there if I was a GM/owner.

Castillo, Bauer, Wheeler, Gray, Descal would be a heck of a rotation in the NL.