cwsox

absolutely right

Harris Ks on low pitch AR singles

The ACTS (what this thread is about) suggested by the Bush-Cheney campaign is what is new and it is illegal. I do not know why that is so hard to grasp, but then you keep trying to change the subject. The "Mommy, all the kids are doing it" thing is tiresome. Everyone knows how to stay one side of the law. The Christian Right has been masters at turning out voters since 1980 so spare me the inner city ghetto stories and look at suburban America and its community churches and others who are just astride the law with their so called family values thing which is code words for vote Republican. Start with the Moral Majority and do some research on how the Christian right has been politicizing within the churches for decades and spare us any more ghetto stories. But this: how can I say: this Bush Cheney thing is a new and creative and illegal and unethical flouting of the law. I am sure Ashcroft will get right on it and do a full impartial investigation and make arrests prior to election day. Bush Cheney has found a new way to be sleeze and to sue churches to do it. Be proud all ye fans of Bush and Cheney - send in your church membership lists for partisan politcal purposes, violate the law, have your church host parties for Bush (put Jesus on hold for a while, we have a political agenda here). But Mommy, all the kids do it. Not this one they don't. This is a whole new dimension in illegal acts and you may wish to change the discussion to "the spirit" again but this is about specific illegal acts that violate the IRS code that are conveneiently timed so that any legal sanctions will fall after election day and be evaluated by Bush Cheney people if they pull this off. But Mommy, all the kids do it. Not this one they don't. This is a new world of specific illegal acts.

I don't KNOW that. I'd like proof. I have serving congregations since 1975. I have yet to get a piece of mail or any type of request from any Democratic or Republican source or candidate to do these types of things. Never. I've been swamped with the straddling the line so called "voter's guides" all from the religious right since I got into this field. This is a new and outrageous thing. Maybe you KNOW better than me but until this year I have never heard of this type of politcizing within the church, sending in member directories, etc., and I reject your claim that both sides do this. I have never seen a suggestion to have the church hold parties for the president. We are supposed to have parties for Jesus. Not since I got into this field from Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton. This is NOT something both sides do whatever you KNOW. This is a new thing, a new type of lawbreaking, and it is unique to G W Bush and Karl Rove and company and they should take the credit.

ding ding ding ding ding ding, thatere is your problem, all that violates 501©(3) status sending the campaign their directories and receiving back lists of "all nonregistered church members and pro-Bush conservatives" is about as illegal under the non profit code as is possible. identifying another conservative church "who we can organize for Bush"; giving a "party for the president" with church members those two take you well over the top oh but because they say they are not asking anyone to violate 501©(3), that makes it all good, right? anyone who does this should have their 501©(3) tax exempt status revoked and then assessed proper back taxes. Look at all the tax exempt property out there. I as a payer of income, sale, and property taxes pay more tax in each category because of the tax exempt status and how it is ued, legally, to defray taxes. So I am very angered when I saw this type of abuse of the public trust by politicans and churches. When a political campaign asks churches to violate their legal obligations, I think conspiracy to violate federal law would be a fun charge, and if they did this through the mail, racketeering. Do all the "be sure to vote" things you want. That is good citizenship. What this thing involves is an intentional effort to violate 501©(3) status - by law, non political status - for politcal purposes.

Rev. Jackson is not serving as the pastor to a congregation to my knowledge, FlaSoxxJim. As for the rest, very well said so I will add nothing other than to note to my good friend baggio that there is a major legal difference between saying "get out and vote" and a political party getting congregations involved in identifying voters for that party and sumbitting church directories and I am surprised you cannlt discern that difference. Meanwhile with Dr. E. James Kennedy and Pat Robertson and all the religious right (the Christian Caolition, etc. many time over) being involved in walking that thin line (except of course 700 Club Rev Robertson running for president) in pushing the republican agenda and candidates, the mention of Jesse Jackson is raher weak.

and welcome to soxtalk again (you get two welcomes based on your name )

and Em and the posse are Tiger fans - that D is not any old D - but I am proud to say I have more Sox tatoos than Marshall has Tiger ones the scene in 8 Mile at the tiki restaurant, that place is just a few blocks from Comerica, right between Comerica and Tiger Stadium

title edited and topic pinned for your pleasure

SoxAce! have I ever told you I love your sig?

I agree and what did the Sox have, 3 hits? Now how that is Gload's fault I don't know but I bet that had the most impact on the Sox losing today

that is a sizable target for you younger fans, that is where the nickname "Hawk" derives, as in he has a nose like a ......

they can't because of the landmark status as a native born Chicagoan who went to Wrigley for the first time at age 5, I have always thought that Wrigley deserved the same status as the Chicago Coliseum long gone

welcome to soxtalk! the pic below is the one I used for Navarro, Heisman trophy winner - and ignore SuperSteve football comments - he is an ok dude who still cries at night because he is an MSU student and we all know green is the color of sarcasm and that God made the sky Blue and the sun Maize

wrigley is hell which makes sam-me -- no wait - he remains an egotistical dumb f*** no matter where he is

I am curious about that too

your friend is very wrong - I was at all 3 USCF games - your friend is very wrong

During the singing of "God Bless America" in the seventh inning, an image of Cheney was shown on the scoreboard. It was greeted with booing, so the Yankees quickly removed the image. Yankee fans!!!!!!!!!

Who gives a damn about the law when we are morally self righteous? the fact that 501©(3) status means that a religious organization shall not participate in partisan politics in exchange for its tax exempt status - which means I can say in church "please vote" but no way under the law am I allowed to say, in church, for whom to vote, and I have always kept a separate phone line for political work and not used the parsonage home telephone line because obeying the law in this matter is a matter of morality and public trust... involving churches and congregation phone directories etc is about as unethical as it gets (and besides Jesus has endorsed no one and know what, Jesus won't...) Party Appeal to Churches for Help Raises Doubts By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK Published: July 2, 2004 he Bush-Cheney campaign has laid out a brisk schedule for legions of Christian supporters to help enlist "conservative churches" and their members, including sending church directories to the campaign, according to a Bush campaign document. The document, which was reported yesterday in The Washington Post and given to The New York Times by Americans Coming Together, a left-leaning group, underscores how heavily Mr. Bush is relying on conservative Christians. The campaign is asking conservative churches and churchgoers to do everything they can to turn their churches into bases of support without violating campaign finance laws or jeopardizing their tax-exempt status. The effort has drawn accusations from liberals that the campaign may be inviting churches to risk accidentally or deliberately crossing the lines. Under the heading "Coalition Coordinator: Duties," the schedule lists 22 objectives with deadlines from July 31 to Oct. 31, including sending the campaign their directories and receiving back lists of "all nonregistered church members and pro-Bush conservatives"; talking to their senior or "20-30 something" groups; asking pastors to hold a "citizenship Sunday" and voter registration drive; identifying another conservative church "who we can organize for Bush"; giving a "party for the president" with church members; recruiting up to 10 church members as volunteers; distributing "voters' guides" in the church; and posting reminders of the duty of "Christian citizens" to vote. After earlier reports about the campaign's courtship of churches and their members, the Internal Revenue Service sent a letter to political parties reminding them that a church violates its tax-exempt status when it supports a candidate. Legal experts say that churches are allowed to hold nonpartisan voter registration drives and that individual church members are free to lobby church acquaintances on behalf of a candidate, but that any use of church resources to support a political campaign, even a gesture like placing campaign fliers on a literature table, can run afoul of the tax-exempt requirements. A spokesman for President Bush's campaign, Steve Schmidt, confirmed that it had distributed the document. Mr. Schmidt said the church program, including the collection of registries, was proper. "We are collecting all kinds of lists from many different sources, and it is completely appropriate to do so," he said. "People of faith have as much right to participate in the political process as anybody else." Liberals called the effort an exploitation of religious faith for political gain and a potential violation of privacy. In a statement, the Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy, president of the Interfaith Alliance, a liberal religious group in Washington, said, "As the pastor of a local congregation, if I found out that my church membership directory was shared with a campaign or political party, I would begin immediate legal action against the campaign or political party." More theological conservatives also questioned the plan. Richard J. Mouw, president of the Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, Calif., one of the largest evangelical Protestant seminaries, said: "Theologically speaking, churches are really in a position to speak truth to power. But this smacks of too close an alliance of church and Caesar." Mr. Mouw added that the Bush campaign should not take evangelical votes for granted. "I find,'' he said, "that a lot of church people, including a lot of evangelicals, are increasingly nervous about the credibility of the Bush administration on issues that a year or two ago people were ready to trust them on, like foreign policy. "Rather than just assuming that evangelical churches are ready to hand over their membership lists, they would do much better to spend some time trying to convince us that they really do have the interests of biblical Christians at heart." At Mr. Bush's campaign, Mr. Schmidt said he was confident of churchgoers' support for President Bush. "There is a wide and diverse coalition formed to make sure that President Bush has a second term," he said. "The level of support is at record levels," comparable to the support for President Ronald Reagan at the same point before his re-election.

a friendly reminder that the admins and mods asked everyone to keep the game discussions in the game thread itself and not have all kinds of other game related threads going on at once please - and pray for Jas and Kap working on server issues today

when I get the check cashed, a finder fee comes your way!

sold!

It is the same CLee. Ozzie and Carlos can work out anything they need to work out. I am tired of CLee bashing.

damn, that is an excellent analysis!

what do you mean "extra time"?