South Side Hit Men

No, we were laughing at the "Dark Clouds" on WSI. The ball landed a few rows away from me at the game Joe Crede won it in extras when Cleveland brought it to 2 1/2 back during the final homestand of the season. Just felt that it was a team of destiny. Was fortunate to go to a few dozen games that season, including the Division clincher in Detroit. I didn't wager everything I owned on the team, and I'm not saying I thought they were a lock to win it all, but was confident they had a solid shot at winning it all and did plop down a few grand for full 2006 tickets to lock in 2005 World Series tickets. Ha, I just saw they reopened WSI, Nothing going on there but the rent. They destroyed the board over there with their ridiculous moderators. I enjoyed the historical White Sox pieces posted by former member here (Lipman) and others on the other side of the site that is now gone (Flying sox).

You can add giving up a 3 run homer to Andrew Romine on an expected .170 batting average to the bad luck. The one home run to Aaron Judge was the one poor pitch that cost Kimbrel, and many questioned whether he should work around Judge, the same questions as the first Vlad at bat last night. Toronto cameras and announcers showed Tony yelling at Seby after the inning, screaming look at me, when he could and should have walked Vlad intentionally, especially after the 3rd ball. Even if Tony called for four balls, one can always find the strike zone, or at least be hittable by someone as talented as Vlad.

People keep comparing 2005 to 2021. I was confident by May 2005 the Sox had a serious shot at the World Series. I do not have the same confidence this season. Here are the primary differences as I (and I believe many others) see them between the two teams: Health: The 2005 lineup and starting staff was healthy all year. AJ played 128 games, the least among the nine starters. Half of the 2021 Sox lineup will be fortunate to reach 128 games this season, with starters Grandal and Engel likely having lingering issues and availability concerns through the playoffs. Tested vs. Untested: The 2005 was a solid experienced team. A 30 year old second baseman was their "rookie". The 2021 team has three untested key rookie starters, one learning multiple positions on the fly and two with under 100 games over 2 seasons due to various injuries. Manager: Ozzie managed the starting staff well, and more often than not pushed the right buttons when managing the bullpen, comfortable changing closers on the fly. Ozzie was familiar with the team, he and Kenny made moves in the offseason to address holes, they were ready to play. Tony does not have a handle on when his pitchers are gassed, prefers a push button approach and also did not have two key contributors capped in terms of usage. COVID: Beyond Tony, the current team is coming off of the 102 game owner lockout from last season, and unlike 2005, we just don't know how the starters, especially Rodon and Cease, will hold up with the substantial increase in year over year innings. Competition/ Home Field: In 2005, I didn't see any team the Sox' equal heading into the playoffs. In 2021, series vs. Tampa, Houston and New York seem to most as coin flips the Sox can win, but are not necessarily favored to win. There also appears to be a good chance the Sox will be going through all three rounds on the road, whereas the Sox had home field advantage throughout 2005. The NL has the Dodgers and other teams who are playing much stronger than the 2005 Astros if the Sox reach the World Series. Can the Sox overcome these burdens / difficulties? Yes. Are they facing a greater challenge than the 2005 team heading into the playoffs? Yes. Do many people feel the consistent mistakes, poor close game management (Tony is 12-20 in one run games, Ozzie was 35-19 in 2005), Tony's obsession over platooning (hitting and pitching), sloppy baseball fundamentals under Tony La Russa (Tony's sloppy team is 25th in errors, Ozzie's team was 9th) , and poor bullpen management (Tony's team is 21st in blown saves (9 from bottom), Ozzie's team was tied for 11th despite having 3 closers) are likely to cost the Sox in October? Yes. The Sox not only have to overcome solid playoff opponents but also their substandard manager, and substantial injuries. Despite going "all in" except for the manager position (AJ Hinch is having a great season in Detroit), there are many legitimate question marks heading into the postseason. This is the reason many fans have expressed legitimate concerns this year, regarding the substantial obstacles this team is facing vs. the 2005 team.

Don't see why people keep complaining the bullpen needs a fixin'. The Sox need a fourth bench player, two starters to return (Engel and Grandal) and three superior bench options (Garcia over Mendick; Hamilton over Lamb, and Sheets over Goodwin). Current Staff - 2021 MLB Pitching Statistics (ERA, Player. Innings, Ks): 2.20 Lynn (130 2/3, 145) 2.38 Rodon (109 2/3, 160) 3.77 Giolito (148, 169) 4.06 Cease (130 2/3, 170) 4.71 Keuchel (135 2/3, 82) 1.57 Kimbrel (46, 78) 1.86 Lopez (29, 30) 2.74 Kopech (49 1/3, 68) 2.77 Tepera (52, 62) 2.84 Burr (25 1/3, 20) 2.95 Crochet (42 2/3, 56) 3.19 Hendriks (53 2/3, 89) 3.58 Ruiz (50 1/3, 52) 4.15 Wright (4 1/3, 3) 4.22 Bummer (42 2/3, 60)

He is valuable due to the lack of any better backup options in the infield / outfield. He's also valuable since for the most part he answers the bell, can be counted on to be available most games (as are Anderson, Moncada, Abreu and Andrew Vaughn, who is 61-48 .560). Jose, the much maligned Yoan Moncada, and Tim are 91-102 win studs carrying the offense. Andrew is picking up the mantle with his outstanding rookie season. Hopefully Eloy and Luis can begin to stay healthy starting next season, since both have played in less than half of the team's games since 2020.

Setting aside the several issues brought up through the first 2 + pages (2018, Katz, Madrigal, Heuer, Boston Red Sox, Rick Hahn, Hendricks, etc.), Kimbrel is more of a scapegoat for an overall poorly performing and managed team, with much of the angst due to the fact Madrigal, and to a lessor extent Heuer, were traded. Kimbrel's record to date in a White Sox uniform: 1. Kimbrel has pitched better than Liam during this period Hendriks 7 Appearances, 7 1/3 IP, 3 HRs, 7 runs (6 ER) Kimbrel 10 Appearances, 9 1/3 IP, 2 HRs, 6 runs (6 ER) 2. In Kimbrel's 10 appearances: 3 were perfect (1 IP 1K; 1 IP 1K; 1 IP 2Ks) 3 were solid: 1 inning & 1 baserunner, 0 runs, 2 K average (1 IP, 1 H, 1 K); (1 IP, 1 BB, 2 Ks); (1 IP, 1 H, 3 Ks) Of the remaining 4 appearances: 8/20: Tony admitted he managed the 8th inning in Tampa poorly. Kimbrell allowed 1 walk, and was incorrectly pulled by La Russa after the second out, His walk scored when Bummer gave up four straight hits/walks and three runs total, Kimbrel's walk and two of his own runs. Sox came back to win. 8/24: Gave up a single, and the runner scored on 2 wild pitches. His fault since one runner scored (the intentional walk was stranded). Sox lost, scoring 1 run the entire game. 8/14: Gave up a home run to lead off the inning vs. Aaron Judge. Allowed a second hit, which was retired when the next hitter grounded into a DP to end the inning. Liam gave up 3 runs to lose the game in the 10th. 8/6: Three runs allowed on a three run homer by Andrew Romine with the wind blowing out (expected BA .170). Sox came back in extra innings to win. 3. The trade can be hashed to death over the next few years, possibly beyond, but Kimbrel is not the reason the Sox are playing .500 baseball since his arrival.

2020-2021 W/L Records - Games Played / Managed Billy Hamilton 36-21 .632 Yermin Mercedes 43-26 .623 Seby Zavala 17-11 .607 Leury Garcia 66-44 .600 Tim Anderson 91-62 .594 Rick Renteria 35-25 .583 Nick Madrigal 48-35 .578 Eloy Jimenez 45-33 .577 Chicago White Sox (2020-2021) 107-79 .575 Yoan Moncada 95-71 .572 Tony La Russa 72-54 .571 Jose Abreu 102-77 .570 Yasmani Grandal 61-48 .560 Luis Robert 51-41 .554 Danny Mendick 54-44 .551 Cesar Hernandez 12-11 .522 Jake Lamb 17-23 .425

Tony falls to 12-20 .375 in one run ball games. 2020 Chicago White Sox 35-25 .583 2021 Chicago White Sox 72-54 .571

Why is Tony fretting platoon, when Tim Anderson is the best clutch hitter on the team. He can bat.

And Heuer may be the bigger loss of the two.

Well they better put Tim Anderson in as a pinch hitter if they want a chance at this one.

Cues @Look at Ray Ray Run for reaction and analysis on Kimbrel's wild pitch.

So easy, a caveman could do it.

LMAO, the only "hate train" is in your mirror. You crowed about Grandal catching 120 + games this offseason, despite the fact that: He averaged under 100 games caught prior to coming here. He barely beat out McCann last season in games caught (32 to 27 + 1 Collins start). The two best young pitchers continue to reject him, opting for inexperienced poor back ups. The Sox record with or without players were discussed last week, and Grandal is the weakest link. ^ This.

Madrigal never makes that play.

TA is the most important hitter in terms of wins and losses. From mid month, stats for 2000-2021. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111515-tim-anderson-is-just-scratching-the-surface-of-what-he-could-be-capable-of/&do=findComment&comment=4192192

Wouldn’t doubt it.

Len & DJ > Steve & Jason That is all.

White Sox Managerial Records Tony La Russa through Tony La Russa *: Gene Lamont 258-210 .551 Ozzie Guillen 678-617 .524 Jerry Manual 500-471 .515 Jeff Torborg 250-235 .515 Tony La Russa 594-563 .513 Terry Bevington 222-214 .509 Robin Ventura 375-435 .463 Jim Fregosi 193-226 .461 Rick Renteria 236-309 .433 * Excludes 1-2 game managers (Rader, Cooper, Cairo, etc.).

And when he returns, it is likely he is a part time catcher, at least to start. The perils of signing an old catcher, especially to a large contract, the largest in Sox history.

If Nick can play 100 games / season for a few years, he will surpass Gordon Beckham's value over 11 seasons relatively quickly. Cesar Hernandez: 9 Seasons; 1,008 Games; 15.4 fWAR (1.7 fWAR/season) (Baseball Reference top comparable - Kolten Wong) Nick Madrigal: 2 Seasons; 83 Games; 1.5 fWAR (0.8 fWAR/season) (Not a large enough sample for a BR comparable) Gordon Beckham: 11 Seasons; 1,069 Games; 5.5 fWAR (0.5 fWAR/season) (Baseball Reference top comparable - Popeye)

Gettin' Miggy with it. 138 HRs in five seasons with the Marilins 362 HRs in his fourteenth season with the Tigers.

PS - What’s with the “Bad Attitude” tag on Kimbrel? Tony said he handled the situation wrong postgame, Kimbrel and Tony had a discussion, and all three (including Katz) are good. https://theathletic.com/2783600/2021/08/22/craig-kimbrel-ok-after-talk-with-tony-la-russa-about-quick-hook-im-not-going-to-be-upset-and-carry-it-over/ Tony Kimbrel Katz

Looks solid to me (and most). Nearly or perhaps every team in baseball would trade their current bullpen for the Sox. ERA through yesterday: Hendriks 3.19 ERA Kimbrel 1.40 Kopech 2.74 Crochet 2.41 Lopez 1.08 Tepera 2.77 Burr 2.59 Ruiz 3.31