greg775

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 07:40 PM) I think both teams in Chicago will be stellar come 2016. That will be awesome. One more year of crap then contention.

I wonder when the Sox will have a good team again. The Cubs have proven you can stink year after year. Baseball is such a long season it's depressing to not be a contender year after year. Robin must really love baseball to want to manage a team not built to contend. He made enough money during his career to be set for life five times over.

Nine errors in 89 games doesn't sound like a lot to me. But think of how many Gillaspie has probably kicked that were called hits. The bad Sox have returned for a while.

DeAza is ridiculously bad baserunner as we all know. It's depressing really.

QUOTE (WKamm @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 12:42 AM) I don't care how well he's hitting. I will never like Tyler Flowers. Really? Watch the replays of those 3 bombs he hit that everybody's been talking about. Sports are supposed to be fun and with this team you have to enjoy certain things as they come.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 09:48 PM) Seth Lakso ‏@SethLakso 2h Avisail Garcia back in the @KnightsBaseball lineup today at DH and batting third. I'd bring him up ASAP, like now, as a last-chance effort to get hot and make the one-game wild card.

Ventura actually deserves a raise for having to watch Coop's and Hahn's guys pitch on a daily basis. Except for Sale, Q and sometimes two other starters.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 03:21 AM) This is the worst pitching staff I have ever seen. Yeah, even my boy, Danks stunk I guess. I still love him at this point in time. He just does lousy vs. Texas teams, doesn't he? Houston and the Rangers. So just don't pitch him against them.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 12:49 PM) I'm not calling them simpletons or anything similar, but when threads like these pop-up, I really DO question whether a lot of people here understand the plan. 10 months ago, at the end of the most excruciating Sox season I've ever experienced, 95% of our posters rightfully (IMO) wanted to clean house. Now halfway through the FIRST season of this, after some frankly incredible strides in the "cleaning house" plan having taken place, we're ripping baseball operations for not having enough bullpen depth to compete? You've got to be kidding me. Yes I can complain about the bullpen because the guys he acquired to fix it, suck. Did he purposely acquire lousy relievers? No. So it is a part of Hahn's job he failed in miserably. Not to mention acquiring Paulino for gosh sakes. It's that simple. Considering one lousy trade (Reed) really affected the bullpen negatively, some of us HATE that trade. Hahn made that trade.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 07:48 AM) Okay now, let's not get carried away. He's not far removed from hitting .089/.141/.143 over 120 plate appearances. I really don't care right now. He's so hot it defies belief. Like I said, some of those blasts have been pretty amazing. The Sox have had so many individual "highlights" this year that could make a helluva highlight film. As bad as Viciedo is, he's hit some rockets. Abreu of course. And Flowers has had some incredible bombs. Eaton's triples. Gillaspie's gappers, Lexi's many many hits, and many excellent starting pitching performances. It's crazy how good some players have looked on occasion. Really the team defense, bullpen and occasional crap outings from No. 4 and 5 starters (plus some lousy hitting from guys I don't need to mention) are the only reason this team is sub .500.

Tyler Flowers is so good it's scary. He has hit some of the hardest balls since the 1977 South Side Hitmen. That line drive homer tonight was scary. That blast over the foul pole last homestand that was barely foul would have been a legendary blast. That cannon off the second deck, I think it was in Minnie, was also Babe Ruth-like. Kudos to Flowers for indeed flipping the bird at all of us.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 04:26 AM) Again, Belly has been good in 3 of his 4 years at the big league level and Downs has been one of the better LH relievers in the game for years before now. Old school and advanced stats both say that. How is he supposed to know ahead of time that they were gonna fail miserably. Some posters are saying the bullpen is the last to be fixed. My point is he did address the bullpen during this rebuild. It's like some are saying you should fix the everyday lineup first, then the bullpen. He did also try to fix the bullpen, but failed miserably. I'm just perplexed some people think he has yet to address the bullpen. He has ... he's just failed at it so far.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 08:34 PM) The plans was ,and you seem to be in the minority here, to build a solid core of young position players and starting pitchers . Players that do not usually fluctuate in performance as much as bullpen pieces do and to have enough money left over to cross that bullpen bridge when they got to that point of having that core in place. How long will it have been once the Cubs or Astro's or the Pirates or the Royal get to the playoffs ? How long has it been since the A's became winners for the last few years. Didn't you use the Indian's and Royals as an example of better bullpens ? Do you think they are going to make the playoffs ? Do you think they have a chance to win the World Series this year ? Yes the bullpen was not at the top of the list of priorities. Position players and starting pitching will always be given more priority. When you can come up with a formula for how to determine which bullpen pieces to acquire I will say a bullpen should be a priority. Until then you and Greg and Dick enjoy your w(h)ine. What are u guys talking about? Hahn deserves blame because he did acquire some new relievers in an attempt to fix the bullpen and these pitchers SUCK. Not to mention a horrid starter in Paulino. A fifth grader could tell you that guy is trash. Not hyperbole. I about puked when I heard we were putting him in the rotation, but I digress. Hahn did acquire relievers. So does that mean he knew those relievers sucked? Obviously not. He thought they were good. So please give Hahn some blame here for this pathetic bullpen. Overall do I still want Hahn as GM? Yes of course. Am I mad as hell at this bad bullpen ... of course. It cost the Sox a possible wildcard. Why is that whining?

Oops. This game is in the hands of the bullpen. p.s. Tyler Flowers is a stud.

I worship Tyler Flowers. That is all. Not all. My gawd, what a stud. Why is he doing this? He is on fire still. I think a lot of people need to give him his due. The guy is nearing .260 for gosh sakes. That's totally acceptable considering his good arm. Good job, Tyler.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 08:04 PM) This is the argument that gets me. "Rebuilding, rebuilding, rebuilding." WTF does that mean? To you it seems to mean -- put a crappy bullpen out there because you don't have a better plan -- then when the crappy bullpen sinks the season, tell the fans "we were just rebuilding; thanks for spending your good money coming to our games; we didn't really plan on contending this year anyway so it doesn't really matter that our bullpen stinks!!" I'm confident that's NOT what the Sox brass intended. Instead, they had a plan, it was just a BAD PLAN. It was also a plan that undervalued the difference that a good bullpen can make on a team's W-L record. For both of those reasons, Rick Hahn deserves considerable criticism. It's NO DEFENSE for Hahn to say "rebuilding." And, in fact, if we were able to get Rick Hahn to answer this question honestly, I bet he would agree that he messed up the bullpen this season. I just hope he learns his lesson. Vafan states it much better than I ever could. I applaud that post.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 08:04 PM) Pretty sure no one hates Addison Reed, but you talk to any GM, and I guarantee at least 25 other teams make that deal. I'm a huge Reed fan, was bummed Sox traded him, but was stoked that Hahn got Davidson in return. It's one bad year. You guys are so pessimistic, its annoying. Adrian Beltre was never good until the age of what 30? Some guys take time. I'm just glad half you guys aren't GMs, because you make the Reed for Davidson deal 10 times out of 10. My contention is YOU DON"T MAKE THE DEAL 10 TIMES OUT OF 10 when you have nothing to replace Reed with. You might counter we had Lindstrom/Jones. I am not high on either guy.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 08:02 PM) Liking a trade that sent a Sox player away does not equal hate for the player or the person. This kind of hyperbole is why nobody likes you. It's not hyperbole. Maybe I could choose a better word but "hating on" is in the vernacular of America right now. It's just a saying.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 08:05 PM) This is just FALSE. The Sox this year are both rebuilding, and had Hahn had a better bullpen plan, would also be contending. And they could have done it without spending much more money. Great post. I think we have a lot of folks in here I wish were my boss. You guys cut Hahn so much slack it's amazing. I like Hahn, but Hahn is getting so much benefit of the doubt when he totally blew it on the bullpen and like somebody else pointed out wasted some money on Paulino, Keppinger, etc. I don't get the Addison Reed hate either. That trade is a fricking disaster right now. The Sox current third baseman looks like he'll be hitting liners for the Sox for years to come. His defense sucks but so does the defense of the guy we got for Reed. You can throw out pretty much all criticism of Robin now because of this bullpen. Nobody could win more games than he has unless the starters all pulled an Ozzie-postseason 2005 and threw all complete games. Hahn seems like a decent guy. I wish him well but the Reed trade IMO is a disaster and I don't know frankly why others disagree with me on this one.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 04:47 PM) I'm going to say this. We entered this season with what I thought was a bad bullpen. We had no closer, however, I thought Nate could step into that role. We added some scrap heap vet arms and obviously had Lindstrom who I put as a serviceable reliever and probably one of the worst closers on any opening day roster. The two of them got hurt, which was surprising, but as a whole, this pen had very little talent, and that is on Hahn. With a league average pen, we are, conservatively 2-3 games out of the wild card. However, we don't have that and never did, so while injuries factored in, I also think the pen was devoid with talent and that was from the start. The bright side is, bullpens, can be remade pretty quickly and I am sure that will be an area Hahn targets. They also can be great places to bring up guys internally and hopefully Petricka and Webb continue to develop and that gives us a couple, quality, cost controlled relievers. Good post. It acknowledges Hahn's putting together a horrific bullpen, but also has a possible solution at the end. Dick Allen is right, though. Lindstrom has become a lot better reliever to people now that he's been out of sight a long time. I personally think he's just another body and probably would be hated by all by now had he kept pitching. We'll never know about Nate Jones. I never liked him; a lot of you and probably Hahn thought he'd be a dynamite closer.

Yes it is his fault, completely. You don't trade a suitable reliever in Reed when you have NOTHING left over. It's like he wanted to lose 99 games again. This bullpen on paper was pathetic. I don't see why GM's get a free pass. OK. He projected Nate to be the answer. And Lindstrom and Downs were supposed to be good. And Bella serviceable. Nate is hurt which isn't the GM's fault, but I'm not convinced Nate is to be great anyway. Lindstrom was OK til he got hurt (though I didn't like him much) and Downs was miserable. Bella is horrific. I need not mention all of the horrific pieces of this bullpen. This is on the GM. The team like you said would be contending with a decent bullpen. I can't forgive him for trading a closer for some guy sucking in AAA. Very very bad job by Hahn and is a negative on his resume. Yes, he's made some great moves as well. But this is inexcusable and on him. There are bad bullpens, but this one is worthy of last place which is still where the Sox could wind up. Team has avoided the collapse so far. Do we have the usual 10-game September road trip coming up where a 1-9 is possible again?

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 04:02 AM) I take it back. After losing a home series to the Twins, having a manager who doesn't manage well, and having a bullpen with so many failed players, I don't think there's any chance this team can make a run. The Sox have teased us diehards. This series was jinxed from the start when somebody posted how easy a homestand this is. It doesn't matter who the Sox play ... it matters how the Sox play. Ridiculous to think it would be a easy homestand.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 03:48 AM) Congrats. You are a smarter person than Rick Hahn. Hahn's bullpen is perilously close to being a fireable offense. I mean ... my gawd. Embarrassing. The Twinks hitting 3 homers in a row and one ball into the Ozone?? It truly is embarrassing. Arcia could have killed somebody had he hit a liner instead of hitting the ball to Gary, Indiana.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 12:16 AM) 6-8 on the season series against the Twins. Has to be better than that against the worst team in your division. LOL at someone who's so positive it's making Rongey going negative....good trick!! Even HE has to admit the bullpen has to addressed due to the poor performance this past month...Petricka, outside of a few outings, and considering his lack of experience as a closer, has done about as well as anyone could reasonably have expected coming into 2014. Same with Putnam. As far the rest of the bullpen...yikes. To me, Webb has been the biggest disappointment, but a lot of that was based on unrealistic expectations. On a happier note, Daughtry is on live now on yahoo screen. Sorry to pollute this thread, but it's good music. Great concert.

OK, I do not care what advanced stats may say. This has to be the worst bullpen in Sox history and one of the worst in AL history. I mean ... cmon.