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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 10:02 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...,3147892.column Phil Rogers fires the first warning shot across the bow. Poor, Greg. http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/...go-chicago-cubs Ozzie on reaction waiting for him, Zambrano and Buehrle Why poor Greg? It was a fair column. I still say Ozzie is gonna be fine in Miami. If not, too bad. Like I've said a million times. Ozzie is richer than rich. He does not need nor does he want any fan's support. There's a good chance if I went up to him in a bar even to shake his hand, he might mock me or punch me in the face. Or he might sit down and converse with me (doubtful). I think he's the normal spoiled major league ballplayer (yes ballplayer who became a manager). He is brash, rich - did I say rich? - and he is Ozzie. He's also the only manager in my lifetime to give me a WS title and yes I am loyal to anybody who can give me such joy. If you think back to October of '05, it was glorious. I don't know why you all won't give him the benefit of the doubt, or a break. Do you not love world championships? Sure you do. So forgive Ozzie and move on.

I didn't get to see much of the game, but I did see Youk's homer. A thing of beauty. Nice win, White Sox. I wonder if we'd have won that game w/out Youk. He's great to have on this team. Adds an element of class and legitimacy.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 03:50 AM) I like the classy Guillen! Too bad it's so fleeting. I don't know how a lot of Sox fans on this board can watch that Trib interview and not love the guy. You can tell Ozzie is f***ing hilarious and he's classy, too. He said he respects Dunn as much as anybody in baseball for what he's done this year. He said something like, 'He didn't play for me last year, but aside from Thome and PK I respect him as much as anybody." Ozzie said he was classy with the media and fans all last year. What more do you want from ozzie? He was captain of the ship when we won a WS. WHo gives a f*** if he "quit" on the team with a week left or whatever. The owner and GM wanted him out. Oz made it easy on them. KW won that battle. What is so difficult to see about that? You guys that despise Ozzie so much ... he had drinks with AJ over all star break. You mean to tell me if you walked into that same bar you wouldn't go up to Ozzie and shake his hand and say, "Thanks for 2005, Ozzie!" I would.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 03:00 PM) Say what you will, but listening to Ozzie rip on Wrigley again is still enjoyable. He more than wore out his welcome, and he bent White Sox fans over and f***ed them in the ass by betraying them, but that s*** is still funny. OMG. Your part about bending the Sox fans over is disgusting and stupid. Listen to Ozzie's interview today on the Trib website. He was funny and classy. He is a true White Sox.

Listen to this interview, please. Mr. Gracious, Ozzie Guillen http://www.chicagotribune.com/videogallery...turn-to-Chicago

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 04:36 AM) At least JoePa's dead. We have to sit here and listen to Jay Paterno be annoying, ignorant and ridiculous every day. They can all go to hell. You should have just laid low and let his death get your family off the hook. Welcome back to the line of fire, I hope you get absolutely crucified the rest of your lives. And they should take down the statue immediately and toss it through your front window. Is there any way the family could be right? Is this Freeh guy prejudiced with his conclusions? I did think it was mighty damning when the AD said to somebody, "What is the update? Joe is asking about it and very curious." That to me was the zinger. That Joe knew and did nothing. I bet Joe never mentioned it to Sandusky once, never even confronted his longtime coworker and friend and said, "Is any of this s*** true? Are you a danger to children???" But I was just wondering if there's any way this Freeh guy knows for sure. Or if there's still benefit of doubt. My other question is: Seriously, should the statue be removed right now? I think it should be taken down. I see the student group changed it's name today from Paternoville or something to Nittanyville or something. My feeling is Sandusky is scum and will be murdered in jail. Also that Paterno never once even confronted Sandusky on any of this. My final feeling is Penn State made a HORRENDOUS f***ing decision, a horrendous lapse of judgment in allowing Sandusky access to the facilities after he was removed or after he resigned. I mean why would a healthy guy like that leave coaching at a young age, in a successful program? Probably because he had to quit cause of abuse allegations. To let the guy have access to the facilities was probably the worst decision I've ever heard of ... ever.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:54 PM) I feel like I heard a few times he isn't very comfortable with balls hit over his head which is why he plays relatively deep. It would be something to work on in the off-season rather than now. That's probably a good call. Unless he goes out there before every game the rest of the way and has somebody adept with a bat smack fly balls over his head.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 01:37 AM) Whatever the fact he had no manager experience is on KW. Excuse time is over it is mid July. You can't have it both ways. The big picture is the team is 9 over .500 and in first place. The little picture is you second-guessed some moves where the bullpen did not come through. I personally don't think Thornton is very good any more. Robin picked the wrong guy ... because that guy failed. Who cares? Thornton may have failed too. That soxfest post is dumb, IMO, cause those who think the team is 9 over because of Robin can't or shouldn't blame him for a move that can be second guessed only because the player (PITCHER) failed big time. It's on the player. Throw strikes or go to the minors. QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 02:28 AM) we are in trouble Sox pitching rotation is all beat up. We are truly in trouble because of that. How are we gonna win one game this series if Sale isn't going?

QUOTE (Carter224 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 12:27 AM) Can we dump Konerko for him? Pauly has been worthless since the end of May.. WORTHLESS. s*** happens. He's in a horrible slump. Somebody said it before, but please bring back Lilly just so we can see a sequel to that kid who was crying when Sox dealt him.

QUOTE (kapzk @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 01:38 AM) I would have rather had Will Ohman in there Not me.

That was awesome the way Youk responded to the cheers. Taking his helmet off! It was a classy slap in the face to the manager IMO. Awesome.

and in answer to your question: Yes Bill James has lost his mind. Crazy position to take on Paterno.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:37 PM) I apologze to the rest of this site for actually asking this question but greg when does it stop being coincidence that these big name players are flopping under Ozzie and thriving under different leadership? I had a long post praising Robin for various things. I'm sure what he's doing is working quite well, but I'm just saying Ozzie was and is an excellent manager. Not an average one, but excellent. Robin looks like the real deal and like I said in the other post figures to manage a long long time if he wants to. Sox have had some good luck with managers lately IMO. Robin appears to have IT, whatever IT is. QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:53 PM) It has nothing to do with changing the love of Ozzie, people have loved players and managers that have left yet seen that the team was MUCH better off with a superior person in their stead. He cannot even see that. Greg is basically akin to PSU fans thinking Paterno never did anything wrong. They have their heads so buried in the sand its ridiculous. I said before that Ozzie's time probably had run out in Chicago. I just wish KW had gotten the boot with him. That didn't happen, hence there was a victor in this struggle of massive egos: Kenny Williams by knockout over Ozzie Guillen.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 05:30 PM) I guess maybe that's what I'm getting at. Does playing so deep help him cover the gaps better and if so, is that worth all of the balls that DeAza lets fall in front of him? From listening to Derrin Jackson, he seems to be of the opinion that DeAza should move in at least 3 - 4 steps. He should still be able to cover the gaps and go back on balls just as effectively, while taking away some of the bloops that fall in front of him. If DJ is correct, I say move him in a couple steps and have him work on drifting backward.

QUOTE (jeffro2525 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:58 PM) I like Hudson over Lilli...the people saying that Lilli is a better base runner...did you see Lilli on the base paths this year? Brent did have a nice run last year, but he's useless. The book is definitely out on him. At least Hudson got a hit in his 3 AB's the other night. Lilli would have gone hitless and swung at 4 balls in the dirt. Hudson is a professional. Not a great professional, but a veteran who we know what we're getting. Lilli is at best what we saw last year, and at worst about as good of a major leaguer as you or I would be. For someone on the bench who is going to start once every 20 games and occasionally be asked to run in late inning situations I choose the veteran hands down. Not a bad post. I think Hudson's a better option than Lilly. Wasn't his lousy baserunning against KC the other night just a fluke? Didn't he get a late jump and take a really wide turn for some reason? Lilly simply cannot hit. He has no clue at the plate. I'm all for signing him and having him play in the minors the rest of the season and maybe just maybe he'll learn how to hit.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 05:10 PM) Prep and philosophy is much improved now. Even the players have stated it several times. Yes but players always say "the attitude is so much better this year." "things are so much better this year." I guarantee if you ask, "Oh, so what needed changing last year?" Then they won't come up with anything. It's on the players. It's not like Ozzie is some buffoon like Bevington. He's a WS winning manager. His time ran out in Chicagoo, but he's still a good manager.

If we can get him, I'd bring him back and start him every day in the minors. He mighta been humbled by this and change his approach at the plate. He's not a fricking home run hitter even tho he hit some bombs last year. Keep him in AAA if he's not stealing anybody's important at bats and tell him he has to change his approach at the plate. If Boston DFA's him that means he's NO GOOD. Maybe it'll get thru Lilly's head he should be a slap/gap hitter with occasional HR power.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 05:37 PM) This article says otherwise. Great article, but it does mention at least twice this just might be a simple matter of players having good years. Case in point his last line: "Of course, the hands-off game strategy works best when guys on the field deliver." I like a few things Robin has brought in, these things mentioned in the article as well. 1.) Not conceding the stolen base. I did grow tired of that. 2.) I misspoke about AJ I guess. I do like seeing our catchers throw guys out once in a while. I don't really see how Robin gets credit for AJ's arm, though. 3.) I do like the absence of the Sunday lineup for the most part. Even on Sunday after the all star break, Oz's style would have been to play a Sunday lineup and yes, we prolly, would have lost to KC in the rubber game Sunday with the Sunday lineup. I do like Robin. I do see some improvements in those areas. I do think he makes the same "mistakes" Ozzie mistakes in terms of the bullpen. When the pitchers fail, it's easy to blame the manager, though. Like Ozzie, he leaves Peavy in until his arm falls off, but that's on Peavy. I'm thinking he makes it difficult to remove himself from games. Kudos to Robin. My guess is if he wants to manage, he can manage a long time. I never hated Robin. I like him as a player and he's doing a helluva job managing. I just love Ozzie as well.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:20 AM) First press conference at Wrigley. I'm surprised you haven't allied yourself on the side of Bryce Harper. I gave you a good quote from him to defend Ozzie, right in ur wheelhouse. I guess there's a chance Ozzie will try to bury KW, Jerry and/or Coop at the presser, but that's kind of old news. He might blast the fans. Whatever he does, it's gonna be Ozzie being Ozzie in front of the cameras. Chances are Sox fans on here will be outraged and I will be laughing. That's my guess.

How dumb can Bill James be? This is not a topic to back Paterno on, my gosh.

QUOTE (soxmaniac! @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 03:43 AM) hold on- im on hold with his agent right now. ill get back to you in a second I asked Fathom; why did you take the time to derail the thread?

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:13 AM) 1) Yes, Ozzie's fault. 2) They still can't bunt? I wouldn't go that far. 3) You think it's just "a bounceback year?" They are responding better to Ventura. They clearly didn't like that loudmouth a**hat Ozzie. 4) But you do care. If they were 7.5 games up, you'd say "see, he is a good manager." 5) Yeah, he's a f***ing moron. Gee, thanx for your well-thought-out arguments. "f***ing moron" "loudmouth asshat" We get it; you hate Ozzie; I love Ozzie. Nobody wins. Next round?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 02:28 AM) Way too much for a rental Any way Sox could sign him for another year or two or does he want Buehrle money?

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:02 AM) He was clearly having fun with Buehrle and I'm sure the Wsox would have taken him back but only at a reasonable price. Miami is going nowhere and it isn't all on Ozzie but he sure didn't help the situation at all... and would you stop defending him so much just let it go and he prob gets brought up less... I'm starting to think you know him on a personal level. Not a bad post except for your last point. Did you see the one guy is now posting at the end of every game thread how the "Sox would have lost today under Ozzie, 7-3." People are out of control with their criticism of Ozzie. It's getting absurd and I just stand up for him. QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:09 AM) The only thing I'm "protesting" is that your love for Ozzie goes too far. He's an average manager. At least you said "average." I can buy that. It's the people who think he's the worst or horrible that anger me. So, in your mind, tell me who's fault you think these things are: 1) Making the playoffs one time from 2006-2011 after winning a championship 2) Having poor fundamentals as a team for many years during his tenure 3) Guys who sucked last year are very good this year (Rios, Dunn, Beckham [to an extent], Peavy [to an extent], etc) 4) The Marlins raising their payroll by millions and now are many games out (hint: you can't say Heath Bell if they've been shut out 9 times) 5) Fidel Castro comments Ok, go. 1.) Ozzie's fault, plus KW, and the players as well. 2.) I disagree on that. We couldn't bunt under Ozzie and still can't bunt. What other poor fundamentals are you talking about? AJ still can't throw guys out. I guess we are hitting the cutoff man better. Kudos to Robin if that's his doing. 3.) My stance has always been it's on the players. Rios and Dunn have had bounceback years and Beckham has still been average at best offensively; supurb defensively. It's on those players, not Oz. Peavy as well; he still has the same pitching coach. Players are the ones who perform; not the managers. 4.) I don't really care about the Marlins' situation. I do know Bell has sucked. Shut out nine times? If that happened here, it'd be all on Walker by our rabid fans. 5.) Ozzie opened his mouth again. I have never minded Ozzie's ramblings; others hate it. We agree to disagree. As far as Castro, I personally don't approve of the bastard. Ozzie was being Ozzie He got burned this time. He has explained over and over what he meant.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 03:07 AM) I think the package to bring Dempster to the Sox is Castro, Jones and a low level prospect... I wouldn't freak out if that's the package for Dempster. At least we haven't seen Castro pitch. If they are gonna do that deal, do it before he pitches against Boston if that rumor is true.