Yossarian

You don't have to pinch me, I know I'm not dreaming. Keep this wild ride going into October. In the meantime, bring on the cute adorable ones from the north side.

QUOTE(Winnin Ugly @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 01:47 PM) I was very excited when he became the Sox mgr since he was my fav player as a kid.. I got to meet him last year at a club in downtown Chicago he is such an awesome guy.. I feel that he is the best Sox Mgr ever he has done just a tremondous job the last two years Oh boy.

Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall were the best Sox broadcasters ever. That being said Jimmy does have "issues" and a mean streak. Nelson Fox was not a lousy fielder and if I ever meet Jimmy I will tell him that to his face. I'm a little bit old and he's a lot a bit old so hopefully he won't try to choke me.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 10:23 AM) Oh yeah, Boers and Berstein are hilarious. If you don't get it... then you're what they're making fun of. I'm listening to them for the first time ever right now. They are boring me greatly. I'll give them another hour or so.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 01:33 PM) I am still fuming since the time I learned it was the Cub in 1920 that wrecked the fortunes of my favorite team. One can only imagine what the history of our beloved White Sox would be had the dirty rotten Cub players not fixed that game in Aug of 1920. Do the White Sox go on to win the 1920 WS? Why the hell not? They were in the thick of the race at the time. Does shoeless Joe Jackson go on to be one of the greatest players of all time. Why the hell not? One might argue the scandal would have re-emerged any way but that would be ignoring the timing of this whole thing. If the Cub players don't fix that game in late Aug & the WS go on to win the 1920 WS they become the media darlings. It's even conceivable to imagine that we might be the most storied franchise in MLB & not the Yankees if that Cub game isn't fixed. White Sox Hall of Fame catcher Ray Schalk told Chicago sportswriter Bill Gleason that if not for 1919 there would have been no Yankees dynasty. Only he didn't say in those polite terms.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 12:39 PM) http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/cubsatte.shtml http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/wsoxatte.shtml Let me tell the real story. In 1920 following the loss in the 1919 WS they drew 200K more fans than the league average. They were one of the highest draws in the league. Up until that time they had been outdrawing the Cub for the most part every year. Then in Aug of 1920, a story broke that Cub players had fixed a game in that month. A Chicago reporter wrote a column strongly suggesting that the 1919 WS be included in the grand jury investigation of this Aug Cub game. The BlackSox scandal at reached it's peak & a promising season with WS hopes went down the toilet. The Sox suffered at the gate until 1925. They drew below the league avg. Then attendance rebounded to 1920 levels. The Cub was below the league avg in those years. In 1926 Wrigley Field arrived as an icon in MLB. The Cub would consistently draw above the league avg until 1951. The White Sox consistently drew below the league avg in that time. Sometimes woefully so. From 1951 until 1968 the Cub consistenly drew below the league avg. The appeal of the new park could not compensate for bad teams. From 1951 until 1965 the White Sox were one of the best draws in the game. From 1968 until 1981 Cub & White Sox attendance was about even. Both struggled to meet or exceed the league avg. A slight edge probably goes to the Cub. In 1981 the Cub were one of the worst draws in MLB. They couldn't draw 600K when the league avg was over a million. The Sox also failed to meet the league avg but were less than 100K short. From 1981 thru 1983 the Sox outdrew the Cub .. big time. The Sox drew over 2 million for the first time in franchise history. By 1984 the franchises had taken different directions. Reinsdorf opted for PPV & the Cub opted for Harry Carray & national cable with WGN. WGN was the first major superstation in America. More American's saw the Cub play on TV than the NYY$. The league average had reached over the 2 million mark by 1987. The Cub hovered around the average while the White Sox fell on hard times. The Cub reached the NLCS in 1989 & 2.5M fans. Well above the league avg. The White Sox in that same year drew just over a million. One of the worst draws in MLB. In 1990 the final season at Old Comiskey drew just over 2 million fans while the Cub avg'd 30K/gm at Wrigley. In 1991 New Comiskey opened & the White Sox outdrew the Cub by 600K+& outdrew the league avg by 700K+. 36K/gm avg. By this time the White Sox were back on broadcast TV. But the upper deck was too steep & the appeal quickly wore off. Attendance began to drop even during years with a competitive team. By 1993 the avg had dropped to about 32K/gm while the Cub had increased to 32.5K/gm. Wrigley had already become a national landmark for MLB fans world-over thanks to deals made by WGN to broadcast games overseas in the late 80's. Yep. Nobody talks about it much. But when Turner bought the Braves & created TBS as America's 2nd major superstation WGN was already working deals to show the Cubs in all major TV markets in the world. In 1994 during a strike shortened season the Cub overtook the White Sox in attendance & never looked back. In that year the Cub avg'd 32.6K/gm (close to the league avg) & the White Sox avg'd 30K/gm (below the league avg). Hard to believe they would strike in a year when the avg attendance was 30K/gm around the league. As the strike wore on. JR was made the scape goat by the media. He was the man to blame by most for the strike. He was perceived as wrecking his own team's chance at a World Series for financial gain. From that point on the Cub went on to be one of the best draws in MLB & the White Sox one of the worst. In less than a 15 yr period the Cub had morphed from being one of the worst draws in MLB & to a Chicago icon, a national icon, & a world icon. WGN had changed the face of professional sports in America forever. Wrigley became a shrine unto the world. In 1999 the Cub drew 500K more than the league avg while the White Sox drew 900K below the league avg. Ouch! Credit the White Sox for closing the gap quickly. In 2000 the Cub drew 300K over league avg, & the White Sox rebounded to draw 300K below league avg. The winning season was worth 600K more fans in the seat. Dissapointing seasons in 2001-2002 pushed the White Sox 600K below league avg. The Cub were nearly 400K above it. In the infamous Bartman year of 2003 the Cub drew 700K over the league avg while the White Sox rebounded to less than 300K below league avg. In 2004 the Cub past the 3M mark for the first time in franchise history maintaining their 700K mark above the league avg. The White were below 2M or 400K below avg. In 2005 the best team in MLB (Chicago White Sox) are on pace to exceed 2M. Something they have not done since the strike. The 14th ranked Cub are on pace to exceed 3.2M. Something they've never done. Stupid Cub fans. Wow. Way to go

Eddie Cicotte was not the ringleader of the fix in 1919. He was along for the ride on and off the field but he was in no way a ringleader.

QUOTE(nvxplorer @ Jun 20, 2005 -> 02:08 PM) Crede's defense is far more valuable than Randa's bat. The Sox play too many close games to give up any defense. The addition of one bat, which may hit 35 points higher, is not going to change that. Overall, the few extra runs that Randa could create would be negated by the few extra he gives up. Randa is a solid defender at third, with above average range.

QUOTE(ZeroHour @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 08:21 AM) How soon we forget that Duke 5th and BMac 6th is the best 5/6 weve had in a long long time and better than some 3/4s of the past. Lately Hernandez and McCarthy have been doing their best Felix Diaz imitation. This White Sox team has the best chance to do something really special since the 83 team. Another SP may very well be in order. I think Hernandez is one big injury away from retirement and McCarthy is at best a AAA pitcher right now. That's giving him the benefit of the doubt as his AAA stats this year are lousy.

We drove 500 miles to see them in St. Petersburg to play the Devil Rays.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Jun 20, 2005 -> 08:32 PM) Personally, i think Brandon is one year away from being ready. At least. I've liked how the White Sox have done business this year for the most part, but they've tried to force feed McCarthy. The kid is not even ready for AAA let alone the majors.

Roy Face went 18-1 in 1959 for the Pittsburgh Pirates.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jun 19, 2005 -> 09:03 PM) I don't like hyperbole, but this is rapidly looking like the best White Sox team in my lifetime. Mine too. What a great great series sweep. It's not the World Series but it will have to do for now. Great payback for 59.

Frank is a patient, disciplined hitter. If healthy there is no reason he can't put up some big power number for another three seasons or so. I know that although JR will show loyalty to personal favorites in the office and on the field, neither Ozzie or KW seem to care much for him. I hope he doesn't get the shaft.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jun 17, 2005 -> 03:03 PM) That's if he lasts that long. I have some serious doubts that if we make it to the playoffs, El Duque will even be will us... I agree. He needs to turn it around fast. He may be hurt again.

Billy Pierce and Dick Donovan were the aces of the White Sox staff between 1955 and 1958. Only Warren Spahn and Lew Burdette of the Milwaukee Braves had more wins in that time period. Unfortunately they both slumped in 1959, as Early Wynn and Bob Shaw picked up the slack. Billy actually pitched well into August and had an outside shot at another 20 game season. On August 6 Billy went 16 innings against Baltimore in a game that ended up tied 1-1 after 18 innings. Shortly afterward he went on the disabled list. In September he had his ups and downs. On September 15 he beat Ralph Terry and the Yankees in NY, but got rocked in his last two starts against Detroit. Nevertheless, he was expected to make at least one start in the WS. Al Lopez was the best White Sox manager in my lifetime, but he could be somewhat of a dicatator. He played favorites and could hold a grudge. Pierce was never a favorite of his, and he thought the world of Early Wynn. Wynn started the first game and pitched 7 innings of shutout ball but strained his shoulder. He stunk in games 4 and 6, making his last start with 2 days rest as the Sox were shellacked 9-3. There was a lot of controversy at the time, with folks wondering why Billy was kept on the shelf. Bill Gleason a prominent sportswriter and a White Sox fan (amazing ain't it?) supposedly never forgave Lopez for not starting Pierce. There were other "insider" accounts that Nellie Fox, longtime roomate of Billy also voiced his displeasure with Lopez during and after the Series. This was supposedly a reason Lopez did not campaign to have Foxie enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Billy Pierce was traded to the San Francisco Giants after the 1961 season. He is the winningest left hander in White Sox history. He led the AL in strikeouts in 1953 and the entire Major League in ERA in 1955. He tied for the AL lead in complete games in 1956 thru 58 and tied for the AL lead in wins in 1957. He was the AL starting pitcher in the 1953, 1955 and 1956 All Star games. Fortunately for Billy his career enjoyed a brief resurrection in 1962 with the Giants. He went 16-6 in the regular season and that included a shutout of Sandy Koufax in the first game of a best of three playoff with the Dodgers. In those days if teams were tied after the regular season ended they played a best of three in the NL and a one game knockoff in the AL. Those games were considered part of the regular season. Billy pitched well and lost in the third game of the 62 WS against Bill Stafford and the Yanks, and then pitched a complete game 5-2 win, allowing only 3 hits in game 6 against the great Whitey Ford. Billy Pierce was a big game pitcher. If Lopez hadn't been so bullheaded in 59 the Sox might have beaten the Dodgers.

Great posts as usual by Jim H. The area around Wrigley Field was blue collar predominately German and Scandavian, with a good bit of Irish also. By the late 60s and early 70s the neighborhood was getting a little rough around the edges. In 1976 a little book called Stuck on the Cubs by die hard fan Rich Schwab was for sale in local bookstores and supermarkets. He alluded to the rough tone of the neighborhood at that time. This post interrupted by Mark Buerhle finishing off the Dodgers. Way to go Mark! Dye! Big Frank! Back to the topic. Gentrification around Wrigley Field started in earnest in the late 70's. By 1984 you could see some rooftop fans on Sheffield Avenue. I was an 11 year old kid when WGN covered the Sox and Cubs at home simultaneously due to a scheduling anomaly for that time. Yes, it was definitely a Sox town in that era.

This takes a lot of gall. Who knows for sure if he is capable of playing much anymore?

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 09:13 AM) Buehrle: "I've always said that the PR department should just hand out tickets to the upper deck -- they'd at least get the money for parking." SBC Yahoo DSL $14.95/mo for 12 mo's vs Comcast HSI $19.99/mo for 3 mo's. Comcast is the 800 pd gorilla in the regions they compete. It's good business to discount pricing when you have excess inventory. However; managing an inventory of empty seats at the Cell is tricky. Monday night drew 32K+. I think a better approach would be to make use of coupons for concessions. Buy an UD ticket & get 2 free coupons of your choice for a food item or beverage. No $ value to the coupon. It's good for any single food item or beverage. You can't play it by the same rules as the other teams because the 800 pd gorilla does exist. On a Pepsi 2-1 night at the Cell they drew only 24K. A little more than their average for the season. That means the park & the team itself are not enough to draw fans. You have to do more. Now any talk of the White Sox leaving Chicago is pure nonsense. Despite being in the bottom 5 in attendance each year they are still near the middle in revenue. Chicago can w/out question continue to support 2 teams. The problem of course is location. Putting all other arguments aside does it make good sense for the White Sox to continue to play in an area that has less than 20% the disposable income Wrigley does? In my opinion the answer is no. Look at the real estate values around the Cell & around Wrigley. It's no contest. I don't forsee a future for the White Sox on the S-Side. Chicago is now home to 5 non-MLB teams. An Athletics class A team & 4 indies. All of them are located in the burbs & are doing well. Good post. Regarding the location. With the lakefront north side pretty much booked up from the Loop to Edgewater, some real estate moguls are now looking south. Parts of Chinatown, Armour Square and Bridgeport are already gentrifying. Bronzeville has great potential and that is going to happen too. The landscape around the Cell is not going to be as bleak 5 years from now, let alone ten years.

Dwight Eisenhower was President. The original Mayor Daley was in office. The White Sox finished second to the Yankees in the AL and Billy Pierce was a 20 game winner. The Braves from Milwaukee would beat the Yankees in the World Series in 7 games. The year was 1957. Do I get a prize?

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 12:28 AM) Yeah I find it ironic that he has to resort to lawyers, when he cannot back up what he writes. If he is confident that what he wrote was correct, why not simply provide the sources? I am frankly sad about how bad the journalism has become in a great great city like Chicago. We do not need dumbasses like Skip Bayless and Moronotti. Why can't we get good journalists for a change? Edgar Munzel. Jerome Holtzman, Jack Griffin, Ted Damata, Cooper Rollow, Dave Condon, John Carmichael, Wendell Smith, Warren Brown, Bill Gleason ..... it's a long list of really good sports writers Chicago once had gracing the sports page. I've never been a big fan of Reinsdorf but I hope he prevails over the lying, sneaking, backstabbing in love with himself Mr. Jay Moronnotti.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 7, 2005 -> 11:11 PM) Hmm hmm, I've been defending him ALL season long than you very much Mr. 101. I hereby declare myself the President then. Add me to the chorus. I've always liked Cotts, even when he struggled. Wildness and assorted control problems have been his weakness, just like so many other left handers in the history of MLB. You have to see that the stuff is dynamite, it's there. I always thought of Cotts as a diamond in the rough that could really shine one day. He's coming along nicely now. Keep it up Neal.

QUOTE(ScottPodRulez22 @ Jun 7, 2005 -> 10:37 PM) They just dont go away They're not going to go away. We're just going to have to finally beat them this year.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 8, 2005 -> 11:57 AM) And I thought I was all alone (well, Yasny has spoken up on this too). I agree on all the Eat s*** stuff but some of the mods like it, so it is what it is. Soxnet was a long time ago. Sure miss it. Still, all things considered I feel more comfortable here than at mlb.com or the monster Sox message board.

Well here we go again. Won the first two. Wonder what the lineup will be tomorrow.