Yossarian

Do they still make Hamm's?

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 7, 2005 -> 06:48 PM) If Ozzie altered the line up a little bit every game, then you'd never, or rarely, have a "set" line up. Guys get used to hitting in the same slot, and having the same guys hit in front of and behind them. Ozzie would also be accused of Jerry Manuel type tinkering if he did this, and it would be the same people screaming about the way he does things now. As for the Durocher comment earlier in the thread .... That's exactly what Durocher did in 1969. He played the same 8 starters every day. By August 15th they were meat. No thanks. I'd keep everyone fresh and/or sharp, whatever the case may be. I remember 69 well. Durocher could be a good game day manager, but like everyone else he had his weaknesses. He loved Phil Regan and clearly overused him. Earlier in the year Durocher did well inserting Al Spangler, Willie Smith, and Paul Popovich in key situations and they came through for him. Jim Hickman became a late in his career star because Durocher little by little gave him a chance to play. The 69 Cubs just plain choked. I still don't like Ozzie's throw in the towel in the last game of a series lineups. There has to be a happy medium.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jun 7, 2005 -> 02:55 PM) If Oz would rotate in one bench player a game Id like it a lot better than if he just threw out the crap Sunday lineup every few days. I think our chances of winning would be a lot better in that situation. You're right, those "forfeit" lineups got to go.

This team isn't good enough to go half assed in the third game of a series just because they won the first two. I believe Leo Durocher was right when he said you manage to win each game, one at a time.

Hello, walls - (hello) (hello) How'd things go for you to- day Don't you miss her Since she up and walked a- way And I'll bet you dread to spend Another lonely night with me Lonely walls I'll keep you com-pa- ny.

Wow am I old or what? Yasny is right of course but the whole go go thing started in 1951 when the Sox rocketed out to a 32-12 start after three decades of mostly bad baseball. The fifties and sixties White Sox always had plenty of speed, and many still refer to the 1951-1967 White Sox as the go go era. By the way, those 17 straight winning seasons are I believe the third longest streak in MLB history.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 7, 2005 -> 12:48 AM) Inability to change speeds is not the problem in Coors. It's the inability to get any bite on a breaking pitch. To me, changing speeds would be a necessity while pitching there, as that would theoritically be the only effective pitch other than a heater. Damn right. Great post.

People have been leaving the Rust Belt states in droves for a couple of generations. There are ex Chicagoans and ex Illinoisans everywhere. We were in St. Petersburg to see the Sox play the might Devil Rays and there were plenty of Sox fans in the sparse crowd.

Well, I'm a bum in the sun and I'm having fun. And I know you know I got no special plans. All the bills are paid. I got it made in the shade, and all I nee, nee, need is the woman. What a sweet talkin' honey with a little bit of money can turn your head around. Creatures from the sea with the looks to me like she'd like to fool around. Here I am, ain't no man of the world, no. All I need is a beautiful girl. Ah, yeah! Beautiful girls

If you're ill you can get morphine or oxycontin. Why not marijuana? This is government overkill, the nanny state at its best. Of course in all legal decisions there is a mixture of the nuances of the law and the bias of the judges making the ruling. I got a feeling that Justice Stevens in his majority opinion felt that this violated current federal laws as now crafted. Issues are often complicated, so you have to be careful in your criticism. I do know that prior to 1913 just about everything was legal in this country and now we have all these laws and all the problems, jail overcrowding, addiction and violence associated with the drug trade. I can't wait for the cops to come bashing down some terminally ill old person's door and cart that poor soul away for smoking a joint to alleviate the pain and stimulate the intake of nourishment.

Lookin' for a lover who won't blow my cover She's soooooh hard to find Take it easy Take it easy

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 5, 2005 -> 04:54 PM) Top of the 12th coming up. That just means we're closer to watching Shingo or Viz.

QUOTE(kman @ Jun 5, 2005 -> 02:14 PM) or strike out. This was predictable. Uribe will swing at just about anything.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 06:35 PM) I say again... OWNED!!! Owned because attendance is up 11%?

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 12:05 PM) OK, I have read the whole thread. Actually I think it's one of the better threads recently. Commentary on the thread 1. Attendance is a legit topic to discuss. There is a direct correlation to revenue vs. what the White Sox spend on payroll. They run the team as a zero sum operation and have increased payroll steadily. Steff knows all the numbers by heart. 2. I disagree with bashing the guy who started the thread. Yes, the topic is somewhat worn out but so is Timo bashing, Crede bashing, Ozzie bashing, etc. Since everything is fair game on this site, so is discussion of attendance. 3. For the "you don't go to games so you have no right to b**** about attendance" crowd: B.S. He brought it up for discussion vs. b****ing about it. Everybody has their reasons for going or not going to games. We are all fans. Anything about the franchise is fair game to discuss. Maybe this guy goes to Sox road games in California. Part of the gate always goes to the visiting team anyway. It's a very small portion but that is the case. 4. b****ing about attendance (if he is indeed b****ing) is no different than b****ing about anything. He presented the argument very well, to say he isn't entitled or qualified to b**** about attendance is ludicrous. The same goes for all of you who b**** about Timo ad nauseum, what makes you qualified to b**** about that? Because you are a fan, and it's a relevant topic to the Chicago White Sox. Stop the elitism crap. I have probably been to more Chicago White Sox games in my lifetime than almost everyone here, save for Steff and quickman and possibly a few others. When I didn't live here I went to their road games (Anaheim and Milwaukee) and traveled in whenever I could. Attendance and lack thereof has been an issue since I can remember and that dates to the mid 1960's. How to Increase Attendance 1. First of all it will not be an overnite thing. Attendance is on the upswing as Mike stated in his post. IMO the casual fan is beginning to notice (rediscover?) the White Sox. People like to do the "in" thing. The Sox are becoming more "in" but this never changes overnite. It took the Cubs 20 years to become the "in" thing (from early/mid 60's to the mid 1980's). The PR people need to keep pressing forward and doing the promotions they do. Over time it will make a difference. 2. Continue redeveloping the neighborhood. I grew up there. There's a mistaken impression about Bridgeport, people hang onto old stories and draw conclusions. Talk to some housewives in Naperville, they think Bridgeport is a slum. Then take them to a few establishments in Bridgeport and watch them go "wow ... this is not that bad, this is kinda nice". Word of mouth is very powerful. They are cleaning up Halsted St. big time, that will help. 3. The White Sox and local establishments should aggressively joint venture. The Sox should promote the neighborhood spots, and vice versa. Example: on the back of every ticket they have a Dunkin Donuts promo. Why not rotate it with a promo for the neighborhood places? "Take your ticket stub to Ricobene's within one week of this game date, get $3 off a pizza." Get the fans out into the neighborhood and they will see it's safe and a nice area to hang out. The establishments in Bridgeport need to press this with the White Sox and the White Sox need to be more open to this idea. Embrace the neighborhood. 4. Continue the focus on marketing to kids. Have even more kids promotions. Fundamentals is a good start, community outreach is a good start. Promote the players at kids events, there are millions of kids activities in Chicago. The White Sox should partner with those organizations more than they do. 5. Do special promos for the upper deck and stop treating it like a red haired step child. Give upper deck people a coupon for concessions, more special meal deals, etc. Market the upper deck to community newspapers. I can't remember the last time I saw a Sox promo piece in my local newspaper. 6. Market the Club Level to the swankier audience. It's a marvelous place to sit, they need to promote it to the higher end audience. Chicago Magazine is a good place to start. 7. Continue the crackdown on idiots at the ballpark in terms of fighting, abusive behavior, etc. Make it known that idiots have to pay consequences, put out a press release when some assclown goes to jail for starting a fight at the ballpark. Reinforce that the Chicago White Sox support a friendly, safe environment. Have fun at the ballpark, kick back a few beers and enjoy yourself but don't get out of line. If you do, you are not welcome here. This supports families going to games. And it makes moms feel safer, a very important factor because we know that moms and wives have significant say so in terms of the entertainment $$. 8. Have more raffle drawings, i.e. Lucky Seat winners. Give away stuff from places in the neighborhood. Not at all hard to do. Show your ticket stub at Guest Relations and win a gift certificate if your name is called. Or, have a Lucky Row contest. They do this in Tucson and the whole row wins a pizza. Makes the game more fun and it's good PR for the franchise and the establishment. There are a lot more ideas but that's a start. Another thing they should do is "personalize" the players more. Boyer is trying to do this. Many of these guys are really nice and their personalities would resonate with White Sox fans. Let the fans get to know the players a bit more. Lots of ways to do this. Wow. I'm jealous, this is an absolutely first rate post. The history in point one is as the British say "spot on."

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 09:32 AM) I have posted this stuff before, but since no one seems to remember I will post it again. Attendance for April and May of 2005 was the highest since 1994. It is already up 10% over 2004 right now. And this is also factoring in how many ticket price increases since 1994? Attendance IS GOING UP. It is going up by double digit percentages, how many other teams can say that? It is irrational for people to expect with a season ticket base of about 10,000 people for an extra 30,000 people to be able to go to every single game. Find me a team that has gone from an average attendance of 20K a night to one that has gone to 35K a night. Find me any team EVER that has made that jump of attendance. Attendance just isn't quite where it should be, taking everything into consideration. Nobody expects the Sox to match the cubs right now. At the end of the year I'll reevaluate. In the meantime I make my first visit to Chicago and the old ball yard since 2001 during the week of July 4. The mighty Devil Rays are in town. Maybe I'll see one or more of you. I may even pop for a beer.

QUOTE(YahtzeeSox @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 12:46 AM) *Posts it again, in hopes that someone will see the light* I've seen the light and you've said maybe more than you realize. I didn't read this whole long thread but the opinion has been voiced that possibly Chicago is no longer able to support two teams. I don't agree with bashing the poster who started this thread. Attendance issues make Sox fans defensive, but last night they had 27,000 + to see the dynamic Pirates beat the Braves. The Sox couldn't at least equal that? The Pirates have an ownership group among the worst in baseball, and are headed for their 13th straight losing season. Three more and they tie the record. The economy has sucked since the 1960's. Pittsburgh is the champ of Rust Belt decay. On top of that it is one of the most football oriented MLB cities. It's time to quit making excuses. The 94 season, the white flag trade are now all ancient history. This owner will never sell the team. The team is 36-18. People need to start showing up. People notice, the baseball world sees this lack of support.

The best historical account of this terrible event was written by William Bradford Huie and published in Look magazine in January of 1956. I suggest reading the account and published letters to the editor. Quite a history lesson. Huie's incredible Look article

He also said Nelson Fox was a lousy fielder.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 10:12 PM) What is this some kind of audition? Screw that, try to win the game...Don't use AAA fodder to try and beat a good team when you have a one run lead. Exactly. This team is not good enough to put individual games in jeopardy just to see if borderline guys can "cut it". This is a monster thread, but honestly it all boils down to absolutely the most brutal managing I've seen in a long time. This guy got an extension? The White Sox are 11-11 after their torrid start. The Twins never lay down and die. Every game is important, a playoff spot is hardly in the bag.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 11:48 PM) So who would you prefer a manager that is incompetent but is a total good goody two shoes to the media, or a manager that is a total prick, but does his job well? He can be a total prick and he doesn't particularly do his job well either. Calling him erratic and inconsistent is being kind.

This still appears to be a point of contention today. Was Hermanson available or not? Whether or not he was Ozzie had me yelling and screaming all throughout the 9th inning yesterday. A great field general he is not, but that's just my 2 cents.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 31, 2005 -> 12:03 AM) I don't buy into this whole theory that the bats will all of a sudden warm up. I think it's a problem. We better get a huge lead before we get to that stretch. And the Sox this year have been making bad/average pitchers look like Cy Young(Westbrook, E Santana to name a couple). I don't either. I'm very concerned about the Sox hitters. Three or four of them look absolutely clueless out there. If the Sox make the playoffs, the starters are going to have to sustain their excellence all through the year.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ May 31, 2005 -> 08:46 AM) I misheard it the same way. He was talking about Frank, and "Hermy" was Herm Schneider saying that Frank was too tight to keep playing. Hermanson's fine. If that's true then a whole lot of folks need to revise what they posted yesterday.

QUOTE(JimH @ May 30, 2005 -> 06:42 PM) That's the nature of this board and I suspect other boards as well. There is a lot of screaming and yelling over decisions made but then after the game some pertinent info comes out and then it's "oh". Generally it's better to reserve judgement and going off a ledge until one knows the whole story, but that's not the way of this board if you know what I'm sayin'. Good post and it's hard to disagree with your logic. That being said I am not overly impressed with Ozzie's managing skills and can only hope he gets better as he goes along.