The Beast

Those who mention socialism or are Trump republicans truly believe that the progressive agenda will get passed if the Democrats got the majority. They do not have the numbers to outnumber the other members of Congress and get them to go along many of their policies. There are probably 95-105 members at most between the house and senate, all in different states and unlikely to have constituents that all want M4A, the Green New Deal, court packing or free college. I don’t think many people even know about what these policies even are, they just know “radical policies bad.”

The latter. It is amazing how people can’t debate policy and accept facts. When fact checked on camera some of them spew the crap he feeds to them and have nothing else to go off of in their arguments.

What degrees are real majors? What if someone is smart enough to get a liberal arts degree, but is unable to attain a STEM degree? More importantly, how would you define socialism? What policies are socialist and why do you think they are socialist, not with links but in your own words?

I saw that previously but I can’t see enough support for that party or any of the independent parties being viable. I doubt they could peel off enough voters to win elections. Also, I have heard “Democrats being Republicans” quite a bit, when did that become a thing and why is that the case? Then we have to hope McConnell does something. I don’t know that Biden has to deny progressive ideas but I have always thought that taking elements of different ideas and proposals made sense as opposed to things like M4A and the Green New Deal (something that seemed more aspirational than realistic). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Security,_Economic_Opportunity,_and_Immigration_Modernization_Act_of_2013 It is already out there, the dumbass politicians should just bring it up for a vote and pass it already, with some modern day modifications to make it stronger. This bill had support in the senate but Boehner let it die. Greg, there is no way that the progressive policies as they are written will get passed and signed into law. Even if the Democrats get a 50-50 split in the senate, what makes you think that progressives will get their way and pass the legislation that they want? I don’t think they even have the majority in Congress. The media should ignore Trump, if they continue to cover him it’s their own fault that the distraction continues. Biden should continue to say no comment and move on from anything Trump or the soon to be former administration says. It’s time for the adults to get to work and restore a sense of normalcy and let the screaming elephant go into his political coffin slowly.

Thanks for these thoughts, I have been trying to think through what they can get done. Assuming they can at least pick up one seat, I think McConnell gets the stimulus package done with Biden. I obviously would love to see the Gang of Eight’s immigration legislation to be brought up again with some tweaks to modernize it but it is entirely up to McConnell if he wants to allow Biden to get some wins. Hopefully he does because republican members get things in the process. I do wonder what they will get from negotiations that they want. What are your thoughts on McConnell blocking legislation from being voted on since 2013? This isn’t meant to be partisan, there are some legitimate bills that have died when they have reached his desk. What do you feel is the best way to make moderates and progressives play along together? I know there is a shelf life to this thread, but I hope that you see that some of us legitimately want to learn from the discussion and that some of this conversation has been productive. I’m trying to behave.?

I would have voted in Illinois for someone else but if I were elsewhere in a battleground state I would have had to vote for Sanders just to beat Trump. One other thought on the parties. Caucuses like the Freedom Caucus and the Congressional Progressive Caucus can have all the agendas they want, but I would prefer that we have legislators who combat problems together, like those who are in the Problem Solver’s Caucus (or groups like the Blue Dog coalition or the Republican Main Street Partnership). It is a stretch given how our politics work in terms of how partisan they have become, but I’m still convinced the way to make lasting change is through bipartisan legislation and not just parties coming into power. I also can’t see a progressive party or far right party forming any time soon, instead we might see a battle within the two parties about the direction of progressivism and Trumpian policy. With that being said, I’m also curious as to what the Biden administration’s agenda will be if Warnock and Ossoff win in GA. The coronavirus relief bill would seem to be the top priority legislatively but I wonder if he would focus on the public option next, or something else. Certainly I don’t believe he will do anything Greg suggested that AOC said in his post.

If progressivism was as popular as people think, Biden wouldn’t have won the nomination, Warren or Sanders would have. It’s quite possible that they could have lost moderates, independents and republicans that voted for Biden of one of them were the nominee. As for policies, defunding the police and Medicare For All wouldn’t get passed in this Congress, even if they got the majority in the senate. A public option makes more sense and alienates fewer voters in terms of not displacing workers and the cost. And clearly the branding for “defunding” the police is wrong, instead it should be something like “reforming modern policing” since that is what the bill actually would be. He won’t “vote Republican,” he will vote as a moderate which is who he has been for years. You are so focused on AOC that you miss the point that their caucus doesn’t make up the majority of the Democratic seats in the legislature, at least not yet. Even so, it’s not likely the progressive caucus will become the Democratic Party given the needs and differing views of voters across the country. There will not be a vote for “defunding the police,” but there could be incremental reform.

What do I need to know about Biden and Harris? AOC isn’t my favorite but I don’t believe she is representative of the Democratic Party. Also: Please also explain how the president’s most ardent supporters would work to get moderate policies enacted and what those might be.

Please provide examples of well sourced hate from Kamala, AOC and Biden (not from cable news but other sources). Please also explain how the president’s most ardent supporters would work to get moderate policies enacted and what those might be.

What about during the Clinton, Bush and Obama years? What was bipartisan then? The nurse I spoke to at the hospital said that she felt like our country was respected more and there was more love for the country with Trump in office, though I think she meant that our military was respected more. I don’t love or hate the country more after the election, but what I have come to strongly dislike is how I can’t agree with people on facts, the whataboutism of what parties didn’t and didn’t do and arguing with people who make the choice not to listen to another side and engage in healthy debate. I also do not like how when there is a divided Congress, the Senate Majority Leader won’t even call legislation that may or may not get the votes and could benefit American lives. I could reference bills from when Obama was in office that just died in Congress as well as some bills from the last Congress.

Correct, or someone like McCain or Kasich or my favorite for 2024 - Larry Hogan of MD. It does make me wonder where the moderate Republicans (voters and lawmakers) go from here with Trump’s influence in the party. I also wondered what has changed since 2008 when McCain graciously conceded and voters accepted it, was it anger at Obama and now feeling like Trump somehow got cheated? I’d have to ask some Trump voters to fully understand. Like my neighbor across the street who put out a Trump sign even after Biden was called the president elect. I’m not sure if he’s showing support for the lawsuits and recounts or if he hasn’t accepted that Trump lost. I also got to talking politics with the nurse in the hospital since we watched the results come in on CNN. I asked her when she last felt the country wasn’t divided and when there was dealmaking in congress. She said Reagan. What do you all think?

Fixed.

In the short term, I am not too concerned about Trump getting any results overturned. Biden clearly won the electoral college and we are not a nation that elects presidents based on the popular vote. In the near term, I think the Georgia senate races will be competitive, even though I don’t see the Democrats getting both of the seats. They could net one if turnout goes their way, although they haven’t had a Democratic senator since 2003. The prize would be Ossoff winning since the special election is only for two years. In the long term, I’m a bit disturbed by the fact that Trump can power super PACs, continue to spread misinformation about voter fraud and cast doubt on our elections and that his party has bought into this and Trump as their approach moving forward.

Brooks Boyer seems to respond to people pretty well. I wrote him a letter one time about an internship and he called me out of the blue. My dad wrote him one time saying whatever he saw was not baseball after the Sox got beat 20-1 by Minnesota in 2009 and he gave my dad free tickets.

Ozzie Guillen or Sandy Alomar, Jr as manager and Justin Jirschele as bench coach sounds really good right about now. Alcoholism is a tough illness to battle but the White Sox had to get in front of this. Now they just look so White Sox.

I was surprised that she “lost” initially since she had been one of the more popular members of Congress since 2018 and was well funded. Hopefully she hangs on. Hah! I told my friend what his name is and he immediately said Billy Bob...if we lived in MS. I like your son’s name as well.? It’s going to take some good turnout from voters in the general election to make it at least 51-50 or 50-50 especially since Cunningham appears to have lost. Hopefully one, if not two fall with voters mobilizing for a better than expected turnout. I’d have to look and see but I wonder where Warnock and Ossoff are on the political spectrum. This makes me think he wants nothing to do with anything bipartisan that benefits Biden. Though they really should get a coronavirus relief bill done.

He’s batting .000 so far. https://apple.news/AY9K0jBWVQhaBqaCqqDacxA

Haha, we did think of naming him Joe but only so we could call him sleepy Joe when he was a baby. Named him William Robert. Yeah I know, Billy Bob.

I also want to clarify, at first I thought I wanted the Filibuster re-opened but after seeing the responses here, I thought differently about it. I see some value in individual threads like this and was glad to at least see a “no but willing to listen” response. Political conversations anywhere can bring on some good discussion but also trolling and personal attacks. I was laughing because I was thinking of Billy Madison’s “a simple wrong would have sufficed” response. Forgive me, I’m also a bit sleep deprived now that my son was born (on Election Day!). I appreciate the willingness to keep the thread open from when it started and to have the discussion during this time. I may not add much in the line of baseball since I am not as well versed in the advanced metrics like others are, but I appreciate reading and learning from everyone in the different forums. Lastly, I appreciate Chisoxfn having this site for as long as he has and will respect whatever thoughts he has on the matter.

Clearly it wasn’t the greatest for everyone. Others have said that this kind of discussion was helpful so it isn’t just me. That makes sense. A single thread by topic makes sense so that it can be evaluated. Thanks for at least considering it with “no but willing to listen” in mind. In my experience, more productive conversations and sources appear to be here rather than on Facebook.

Would there be any consideration to having a political thread that is locked until some major pieces of legislation are being debated and voted on so that some discussion could be had? What about for special elections or elections in general? I mostly read the filibuster or threads like the coronavirus thread for information and to understand opposing viewpoints while disregarding the trolling.

From the tone I heard from senator Romney today on Meet the Press, progressive promises on the campaign trail aren’t going to happen. Progressive voters and lawmakers need to understand that and if they want to do something about it, then they need to get the two senate seats in Georgia. Legislation can’t move beyond the grim reaper if he’s the majority leader, the senate is where democratic policy goes to die. I do hope bipartisan legislation moves forward but I am not certain that it is a guarantee. I guess it depends on McConnell’s and Biden’s relationship and McConnell’s willingness to bring legislation to the floor.

I’ll blame McConnell, easily. I don’t know all of the senate rules but how can one person control the direction of the entire senate? I know this has happened since 2013 (at least) but at least the margins are closer. I also wonder what motivates McConnell in terms of what he gets in negotiations or if he truly wants to stall until the 2022 races.

Once races are over I will be curious to see how off the polls were for individual races. I tend to think there is a lot of lying with poll responses to try and throw off the polls. This might be wrong, but I think for some people, being a Trump supporter is something that they can belong to, like a club or cult, or they think he’s a star that they idolize. Qanon is more on its own, I don’t know but I don’t think a lot of Trump supporters believe the theory and that it is a fringe movement that has hitched itself to his base.