nrockway

good point, I'm surprised he made 21 starts last year. wasn't super effective. it is a lot of money for a reliever, but I like the guy.

Also, this commentating crew is one of the worst I've ever heard.

Yariel Rodriguez, the Sock who never was, should've been in much sooner. Why didn't we sign that dude?

also, just watched this french-language opera the other night. our man Hoffman, circa 1850, falls in love with a robot despite all of his friends trying to convince him that...she's a doll come to life. I think gen z, gen alpha could learn a lesson here.

Yeah, he's behind Wikelman, Leasure, Taylor for sure on this current Sox team. But it's basically no money for a low leverage, above average ERA reliever. I wish we had a proper lefty, maybe Ky Bush is the guy, to put in front of Wilson. Hopefully, that lefty isn't Schultz or Smith. Ellard or Eisert might improve, they're just rookies. I'd bank on Bush or Schweitzer first while hoping our actual prospect lefties remain starters. Shane Murphy is another lefty who I hope remains a starter and who I think, if he flames out, doesn't project well in a high leverage bullpen role...similar to Cannon, who might just be done as a MLB pitcher.

Vaughn produced 1.3 WAR for the Brewers in 254 plate appearances. If you were to average that over every PA he had this season, it would amount to a 2.29 WAR player. Not bad, right? Basically average. As stated, I thought he was a good addition to the Brewers. But a 2.3 WAR player is barely a difference maker for the best team in MLB. A bit better than Rhys Hoskins, I guess, but not by much. Is that the difference between the 5 games the Cubbies were behind? Stats say no. Logic says no as well. I said Vaughn was a good addition for them. But hardly better than what Miguel Vargas actually produced across a whole up and down season, I could cherry pick some numbers for him or Sosa. Non-theoretically, Vaughn was a negative WAR player this past season. Vaughn doesn't even rank on "OPS leaders in the second half" and if they never made this trade, it would an interesting take to assume the Brewers would not have won the division regardless. The Cubs unsustainable offense collapsed. Their lack of pitching depth was exposed. These were not issues with the Brewers roster. They genuinely didn't even need Shane Smith, though I bet they wish they kept him. Anyone who paid attention to MLB this season might've predicted that (hence the reference to Carson Kelly who split .899/.596 OPS from first to second half...obviously that was not being sustained. PCA has even worse peripherals than Sosa and he was not going to sustain his .850 OPS first half...et al down the rest of their lineup...the Brewers put in consistent performances that could be replicated and they were. The Brewers were a very consistent team the entire season.) To say that "adding Vaughn is why the Brewers were better than the Cubs" is strictly wrong and seems like a take from somebody who didn't watch any baseball the last season and simply cherry-picked some box score stats. It seems insulting to the roster the Brewers intelligently built from top to bottom, defense, offense and pitching, bench depth. We're seeing this play out in front of our eyes, the Cubs are entirely overmatched. Shota took 1.5 years to regress to his NPB numbers but anyone who watched him in Japan knew it would happen eventually. The Cubs expected to rely on their rookie flamethrower for 6+ innings and he got injured whereas the Brewers intelligently put their analogue in the bullpen. One team was effectively managed, the other was not. The unsustainable Cubs offense in the first half is the key thing. Their lack of pitching depth is another major factor. Did anyone really expect them to keep up their first half performance? I did not and they certainly didn't. Many might have predicted that. The Cubs cheaped out, didn't add at the deadline, and we're seeing what they wrought. It's such a bizarre, anti-knowledge take to think the Brewers are suddenly good because they added Vaughn and not because they have an incredibly solid roster mostly devoid of holes.

Many players. Aaron Judge might be one. On our own White Sox, Colson produces almost 3 times as much WAR over roughly as many plate appearances as Vaughn with the Brewers. Kyle Teel produced more. These are just some rookies on a bad team. I'm not willing to count every player on every team that was better than Vaughn. There are far too many. Not to say Vaughn wasn't good for them, he came up huge tonight, but there are countless more impactful players than Vaughn. How much better was Vaughn that Hoskins or several other guys who could've played 1b for them? He was better for sure. He was a great addition to the Brewers team, a very nice trade for them in hindsight. Saying he's the "primary reason" for the Brewers being better than the Cubs is simply wrong though. The Brewers were the team to beat all season. I think they might've preferred to keep Shane Smith instead of to do a bullpen game tonight, if we're gonna say anything else about Sox players. But the Cubs pitching is so bad and was obviously so bad at the deadline and they didn't do diddly. Shota has been a ticking time bomb since they signed him.

laisse tomber les sox fans

what simply what. Milwaukee was better all season. Cubs might've thought to add some starting pitching or not to have their offense be reliant upon a career .680 OPS catcher.

fuckin pwned, bro

Vaughnie getting it done on both sides. Good for him. Let's go Brew Crew!!

Yeah I think it could go either way. I think the reason to tender a contract is to not look like a 'cheap bad guy'. But I don't really care either way. The guy has already made millions of dollars in his career, not trading him at the deadline was the "nice guy" move to make. I doubt he's getting any better. If it's the offseason, his family can plan more accordingly than a midseason trade. I think we have other players to take a look at or there are free agents who would likely be better for the same amount of money or slightly more.

For all the talk about how Wilson sux, he just posted 123 ERA+ across 55 innings pitched. a UFA RP with such numbers is getting paid at least $5mil. The Sox tend to not go to arbitration, but I can't imagine him being paid much less than this. Maybe like $1.3mil, but it's basically splitting hairs. $1.5mil seems like a totally fair deal to me. But I like the idea of not even reaching arbitration even if they end up paying him a little more. Worth noting, I think the Sox letting Michael A get his plate appearance bonus in a worthless game sends a positive signal to free agents. Rowdy Tellez the previous year got cut right before he could reach his 'bonus'. Tauch is more interesting. He had a tough last two months at the plate and is now injured (.700ish OPS those 2 months, not so bad). $3.5mil seems like a lot for him, but it's not that much money. He's a good guy, his teammates seem to like him, he's a local dude, but I'd personally rather see someone like Dom Fletcher or a proper free agent get time in RF. Somebody needs to keep the spot warm for Braden but it's ultimately his spot and I suspect he joins the MLB team next season. Personally, I'd rather it be somebody controllable and younger than Tauchman. I don't really care to see Tauch in a Sox jersey again, so I hope the two sides can work out a mutually agreeable trade for a semi-useful player. He's worth more than Austin Slater or Robbie Grossman or Matt Thaiss, so maybe you can get a semi-useful player, even just a bullpen arm or a 19-year-old position player. I think they should tender his contract.

I think he'd be an awesome play-by-play guy. I think he's done, but agree with you that he'll try to keep his career going.

the ricketts family and cohen are the two most evil owners in mlb

He's better than JJ for sure. They should've kept Darnold. Ended up having some fun games. Broncos comeback was fun to watch. Going for 2 on that last TD drive was brilliant. Commanders scoring 27 straight/Chargers not scoring after the first quarter was also entertaining. sidenote: I hate these 'rivalry' jerseys. City Connect garbage of the NFL. Bills are wearing, like, some 'winter whiteout' uniform but it's been 80 in Buffalo all week.

I didn't realize this was a thread. Very boring lineup of games today. Minnesota had an advantage having spent the last couple weeks across the pond and still barely beat a terrible team (though the Browns defense is genuinely kinda good). As a fairweather, sometimes Bills fan, watching the Ravens get whooped today (and all season) is incredible. Always funny to watch the J.E.T.E. Jets get whooped. Packers and Bears getting a bye the same week is just like...why. Who made the schedule this year? Some drunk guy using ChatGPT?

I don't think I'm whining, I merely suggested you might benefit from a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Many do. I hear it doesn't do great things for one's erection. "Woe is Sox fans" is such a boring groupthink. Also, check it out, people call each other 'bro'. Why is that its own paragraph bro. It's not like I called you bruh.

I genuinely couldn’t care less bro. 😎 I wasn’t even making fun

I like him better at third than first. And obviously left. Someone who might hit 30 homers should play first. Only guys that come to mind are Sosa and Elko as proper first basemen. Jeral Perez maybe in a couple years. Montgomery after his next back injury tbh. Carlsen is the actual shortstop of the future. But he’s 18 or something. Still think if Gleyber Torres can play second, so can Sosa. It would be a major boon if your second baseman can hit 25+ homers. His defense is better than this forum seems to think.

I’m sorry you’re depressed, Tony. They make medications for that.

I don't see how it's worse than this past season unless every single young player regresses. One might expect actual prospects to join the team too, just not necessarily on opening day. This same-ish team was 28-37 after the ASB which, you know, isn't good, but isn't 105 losses.

Tend to agree, only I think Martin is sort of just who he is at this point. I think he can increase his IPs and maybe drop his ERA below 4, but I think he'll hover around 100 ERA+ moving forward and he's already about to turn 29. He's a very good pitcher, but not a 1 or 2 IMO. I think this is the height of his value, or close to it. The same could not be said about Burke or Cannon. If Burke can harness his stuff, he's a true top of the rotation guy. I think Martin is more useful to other teams than he is to ours. I'd rather see some rotational churn in 2026 if it means getting back a legit every day position player. Can always find another Yoendrys Gomez, Adrian Houser, Erick Fedde off the scrapheap. I'm not saying that there is a deal available and I wouldn't trade him just to trade him, but I might be shopping him a semi-aggressively. I don't really think finding pitchers to fill innings will an in issue, even internally. There are several guys I left out of my rotation/bullpen who can likely replace 60-80 or so innings from Martin. This is what I'd actually like to see. Mead could definitely play the position. Vargas already has. Could give Antonacci minutes out there, even Bonemer.

Rotation SP1: Shane Smith SP2: Davis Martin (I think he might get traded) SP3: Sean Burke SP4: Drew Thorpe SP5: Shane Murphy/Mason Adams I think Cannon or Yoendrys could be 5 depending how Murphy/Adams look in Spring. I'd like to see what those two are capable of though. Maybe Thorpe regressed (or isn't ready in time). I would think Smith and Martin are the only two who absolutely 'earned' a spot in the rotation. Bullpen (from high to low leverage) Grant Taylor Jordan Leasure Wikelman Gonzalez Mike Vasil Steven Wilson Ky Bush Fraser Ellard Tyler Schweitzer Ultimately, I think some of these pitchers could be moved. There is a fair amount of glut with MLB-quality pitchers returning from injury/set to debut. I'd think of Martin and/or Gomez as being the ones to go. Height of their value. Burke and Cannon could be trade candidates but Cannon sucks until he proves otherwise and I think Burke has another gear. Wilson likely has some value. Vasil for sure does, but I'd like to keep him. Taylor/Leasure/Welkommen I really like as a backend core. Position Players C: Teel/Quero (Lee replaces Quero if he is traded like I think he might be) DH: rotating cast of Quero, Benintendi, Sosa, whatever position player needs a day off from playing the field. Quero getting the most PAs. 1B: Lenyn "Vladdy" Sosa 2B: Chase Meidroth SS: Colson Montgomery 3B: Miguel Vargas I don't think there are any real surprises in store for the infield. Maybe Vargas plays first, Mead third, Sosa DH...maybe Chase plays himself out of an every day role and Sosa's defense is passable enough for 2b. Montgomery and Teel are the only 'locks'. LF: Brooks Baldwin/ Badrew Benintendi (Benny shouldn't see any time out there but I bet he will) CF: Luis Robert (he ain't going anywhere any time soon) RF: Mike Tauchman/Dom Fletcher (keeping the spot warm for Braden who I suspect will not make the team out of Spring Training) I think it's possible to see some cheap free agent signed for the outfield. They could go for Mullins, maybe a $10mil deal, if Robert is in fact traded. Conforto or Winker or Grichuk wouldn't be totally surprising. Bench Curtis Mead/Bryan Ramos, Benintendi/Brooks, Korey Lee, Corey Julks/Dom Fletcher. Some combination. Probably call-ups (Jacob Gonzalez should get a shot) and maybe a vet min free agent. I would love to see some trades made to supplement this lineup especially in the outfield.

Bonemer is too low