LDF

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 10:17 PM) Us Sox fans would hate Desmond. Lots of inexcusable errors and lots of terrible at bats. Unless he comes way cheaper than most would imagine, I'd rather stick with Alexei for one more year. i understand but he would be a nice option at 3b, again dependent on 2 things, salary request and QO,

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 09:42 PM) Of course, it was an overpayment, but they just came off of a Stanley Cup. Immediately, that puts your players, if you want to keep them, at a higher premium. There was no reason to believe that Bickell wouldn't improve the next season. In fact, most thought the playoffs were a jumping off point. AND, if I remember correctly, he even took a lower contract with the Hawks because he wanted to stay. I believe there were bigger contracts out there. So, who is a better GM? I can't answer that. There's really no such thing as the BEST GM. Even a blind squirrel sometimes gets a nut. But overall, Stan took a cap-strapped team from Tallon, re-made it TWICE, and won Stanley Cups. I'll even say the 2010 SC should be more on Tallon because they were mostly his players. I will agree, Stan is top 10. I would even say top 5. But he, just like every single person that has had the title GM, makes mistakes. nice post. ref the bold, i am not smart enuf to say who is top 10 gm in this hockey world now. but i will always give credit where credit is due. bowman has done a great job in getting the personnel for Q to use and to get ready for the SC chase and he did it again. interest question. how does a gm in hockey is or will be rated???

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 09:32 PM) This is a great post and I appreciate the time you took to write this. I just feel like Stan is a top ten GM but there are certainly better ones. and i will give bow all the credit for overcoming this obstacle. can't freaking wait for the season to start.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 10:25 PM) Reasons Heyward makes sense: Buying his prime years. Elite defensively. Gets on base. Highly marketable. Left handed bat. Could be a 20-20 guy. The problem: You're going to have to cut your losses on LaRoche and move Melky to DH. So Heyward will be SUPER expensive. But damnit, the OF D is fun to picture. you make an excellent point esp in the the buying .. prime yrs. my problem .... the cost vs rebuilding and the result it will have the owners spending money to do both.

QUOTE (Douglas Rome @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 10:43 PM) we talk about the Yankees, anyone but me remember when Bill Veeck invented the exploding scoreboard? Casey Stengel would have his players run up and down in front of the dugout with sparklers. That's the kind of show we don't have anymore. thanks, douglas and if ty cobb .... prob will have a bone fire with the jerseys burning, while sharpening his spikes.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 10:22 PM) I think with jersey sales most likely at an all time high these days, removing names is not happening. or it could improve it .... i am basing this opinion on the bo jackson jersey in white sox garb.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) Showcase. interesting .... you think he is being showcase for a trade... if so, i wonder whom.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 10:11 PM) Your comment on Bickell is exactly what I was talking about. You can't just look at a contract as where it stands right now. Of course Bickell hasn't played up to that contract. But, no one could have known that back then. You can't retroactively look at a contract and call for someone's head based on a players performance. It was market value AT THE TIME. If Bickell was playing better, no one would care. He might even be a deal. But Stan shouldn't be kicked in the crotch for that contract. yes he can when, and remember when i said i wasn't here at the time, many in the hockey world thought his contract was an over payment. ref the bold, bowman has to be aware of all of that , he has the highest position in any hockey org outside president. a gm can not be taken unaware or if he is, he will be replaced.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:54 PM) Comcast SportsNet ‏@CSNChicago 4m4 minutes ago #Blackhawks recall Ville Pokka, assign Viktor Svedberg to Rockford: http://bit.ly/1KYrTzx (@TramyersCSN) interesting.... really took me by surprise. thanks for the update.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:27 PM) LDF and Austin Illini, We...as fans...have the luxury of looking back on every signing, contract, trade or non-trade with 20/20 vision. Well, it's OUR 20/20 vision. We see things the way we want to. For instance, having to deal Saad to keep Seabrook. Signing Bickell to 4 years, whatever the total is. Trading this player we love for that player we don't love as much. in ref to the luxury, since we as fans are not to privy nor do they talk to us the fans for our advise. now when those action are done, i voiced my displeasure at the instinct it was posted. except for the bickell signing. i was not here at the time. But there are things we don't see. Trades that are agreed to but pulled at the last minute because of injury or owner doesn't like it. Signings based on progress. Signings based on performance. Signings based on potential. Signings based on market. good point. i agree. Here's a stat. For this coming year. Brent Seabrook is the highest paid Blackhawks D-man. He is also the 13th highest paid d-man in the league. PK Subban is first at $9 m. This is just this year. Let's say Seabrooks contract kicked in this year. He'd be the 9th highest paid d-man in the league. Right behind Zdeno Chara. So, now, let's look at the d group, cap hit and league rank: Seabrook: $5.8 (13) Keith: $5,538,462 (20) Hammer: $4.1 (65) Daley: $3.3 (94) Rundblad: $1.05 (150) TVR: $925,000 (157) By the way, I got all of these at http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/cap-hit/defenseman/ You should see the murderers row of horribly paid defensemen above ours on that list. Even the ones that may have earned the contract haven't won a damn thing (Subban, Weber, Suter, Phaneuf, Pietrangelo, Karlsson). i agreed but that is where the it comes to, make a offer and stick to it, depending on the player and their importance to the team. it has to be on per case. You sign players like Keith and Seabrook and Hossa to those long but slightly undervalued contracts for two reasons...one for their service so they know they are going to be taken care of and two, other players notice this and want to play for your team, not oonly because you win, but because you are protected by your org. each of those signing are important at the time and have an importance.... now look at keith age when he sign the contract. But then, you would say, what about Bickell? Well, at the time he was extended, he just had a monster post-season. That's one. He's a power forward, something the Blackhawks don't have a lot of. That's two. That was the market rate for those types of players, coming off that season/playoffs. That's three. The cap was supposed to have gone up more than it has by now. That's four. bickell was, as you said signed on his performance. now bickell performance has never changed, it is inconsistent at best. Let's go to trades. Sharp needed to go because he's getting older, the issues in the locker room, AND you have players ready to step up and take that role. Sure it sucked to lose Johns, but this is the old argument of how do you view minor leaguers? Are they tradeable until they prove they can play at the big league level? OR are they someone you need to hold onto because they are going to be awesome? Pros and cons to both, I would say. But, for me, Johns hasn't done anything until he does something (RIP Yogi). Saad wanted to get paid. The Blackhawks couldn't afford him at what he wanted. If he would have taken a little bit of a discount, he would still be here. But, as is his right, he wanted the most he can get. So you get what you can. And to be honest, I think the FO did pretty damn well for themselves. So what if Dano isn't here to start the season. Teuvo wasn't either, but he was up when it mattered and won a Cup. It won't be long for Dano. AA is a serviceable 2C or 3C who should be pretty good on a line with Kane and Panarin. everyone wants to get paid, on TSN Saad explained his agent was not able to negotiate with the hawks. Saad points, skills and experience is and will be nissed. but it wasn't the trade, it was the reason on the failed movement of other items. Oduya waited as long as he could. He's more expensive and older than Kruger, so he had to get as much as he could. The Blackhawks couldn't meet his demands in his time frame. So, he found a team that could. Be well. But the fact that Kruger probably could have gotten double his salary, and maybe more, but opted to stay with the Hawks is pretty incredible. My point with all of this isn't to prove you are wrong. Because you aren't wrong. But you aren't right either. And neither am I. Johns could be awesome and we could regret that trade. Sharp may score 40 or he may show his age. Dano might never pan out to be anything. Or he may be 75% of what Saad was. We could go through this with ALL of our players. So, let's just not. The Blackhawks have won 3 Cups in 6 years and are poised to do it again in the next few. That's pretty incredible and Stan deserves credit for it. One more thing. Sure Bickell's contract sucks now. I think we can all agree on that. But think of this...when he gets traded or sent down, there is so much depth, I wouldn't feel nervous about who would take his place. And honestly, other than Rundblad, I don't worry about the D depth either. Sure there are some green d-men in Svedberg, Pokka and Gustaffson, but one of those three should be able to step up when called upon. Whew. whew is right and nice post. i made my bold as counters. now with ref to seabs... he deserve the money and i made my points on why i did not like the signing. again, bowman recoup what started as a lousy start of the off season. no one can dispute that. what bowman did and with a great effort, he recoup this with some nice players. these players are young replacement in which i am talking about .... employing new fresh young blood to keep the core fresh. i am stoke for the uncertainty of all these new moves. as a fan, does anyone really think i want the hawks to fail to prove a point???

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:04 PM) I think Ian Desmond is someone the Sox look at. He can play SS next year, and if Anderson is good enough, move him to 3B. His contract could be a little depressed by his awful start this season. i have been thinking of that for a long time. but i am hesitant on the QO.

ref rumors furthermore, there are some who claim inside news.... that too is should be considered a rumor as well. yet some may believe those rumors and not others....

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:04 PM) Honestly the only trade rumors I believe are the ones that were reported finished and got hung up in ownership (ala garland/erstad and griffey in 05) i like this.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:02 PM) How can fake rumors on a site be "pointed out?" no one can.... even when people claimed sources ..... everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt and be ferret out in time. TSN is a respected site of sports info and they have a rumor site. all these sports sites deal and has a selection of rumors.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:01 PM) My contention is reality. Yours is underreported rumors. It is also common sense. Why would a guy who knows he has to make sense ignore exactly the deal that would help him most, in lieu of one that puts him under the public microscope? When you deal in rumors, you deal in things that are at best partial truths. DO you actually know that this was the offer to the Hawks, or was it what the Hawks asked for? When the rumors run contra to common sense, I am going to require a little more vetting than just believing anything I am told because it was on the internet. What I do know is that no real reporter actually ever put their name on the report with some sort of confidence, which is another red flag. so with ref to names, and or sites. TSN was the one , if i remember correctly, which i also mention, were the one who posted the bowman rumored with ARZ and the demands from bowman. now that is that or this discussion. i use rumors just to keep inform on what is happening or going to happen. every one uses rumors on this site in one way or another, admit that, even you. the common sense is all so subjective as i mention before, about your opinions on this. rumors rumors and more rumors. everyone deal with rumors and have to deal with them, just b/c some will never be proven per some wish, it still should not be discarded so easily.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:48 PM) I still want to see some proof. rumors .... you have the luxury and has done so, willing to believe one rumor and discard others, based on your opinion. so unless bowman come to you and verify this, i can see how you will never believe anything unless it is along your opinion. so deal with those proof, or links or site i mention before.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:40 PM) I have a hard time believing the team should do anything except ride this core into the ground. Championships are everything, and I'd much rather they try to suck every cup possible from this unit than do a better job prepping for 5 years from now. There are a lot of good teams in the NHL, a lot of rosters I look at and say "wow, they look great". But the Hawks keep winning. This core has that something, you gotta ride with it, deal with the rest as it comes. excellent point. every dynasty has a expiration date. the hawks are hammer, keith, kane, toews and yes crawford. i agree to ride this group as long as possible depending on the evil salary cap kills this team. but i still would like to continue to employ new blood to help in prolonging that run with smart draft, fa pickup and yes when needed to release a favorite player. progression.... i what i am thinking about.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:30 PM) Except that isn't how the contracts worked. They had to make Saad fit now, not next year. but as i pointed out, before, the hawks FO was po'ed on bowman handling that rumored, yeah that evil rumored trade failure before the draft. the end result was the trading of Saad and loosing Johns. the hawks screwed up the trade with ARZ and ARZ had to go out and make a trade for Ponger's contract. Dead money so ARZ could get to the salary cap floor. that was the failed trade with the hawks on bickell contract. but that is the past, nothing can be said or done now.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:21 PM) Some pertinent info to this thread from Kiley's prospect chat today: Comment From Tim Best college hitter in the 2016 draft? Kiley McDaniel: Either Florida CF Buddy Reed or Louisville CF Corey Ray, both from Team USA this summer. Slight edge to Ray right now, but Reed has more upside and could overtake him this year. Both in the top 5-6 picks at this point for me. Who is the group of 6 guys at the top tier of the 2016 draft? Kiley McDaniel: RHP Alec Hansen (Oklahoma), LHP A.J. Puk (Florida), LHP Jason Groome (HS in NJ), CFs Corey Ray (Louisville) and Buddy Reed (Florida) and RF Blake Rutherford (HS in CA). No one I talked to specifically referenced that as the top tier, or called it a big 6 or whatever, but I think that’s mostly bc it’s really early. There’s some consensus that those are the top couple guys. excellent point. the whole idea at this stage is what i really love, identify a hand full of prospect now with the info that is at hand. then wait to see how they develop in a new season while identifying the team needs. i do like reed overall hitting skills stats last yr, but i still like to see him develop. the main problem i have when the experts calls this player best hitter. there is really not standards. i mean rutherford is listed as the better hitter. Dalbec is considered a very good hitter with enormous power. that that is the beauty of this at this point.... the unanswered questions and the trail to find that answer.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:12 PM) You worry about that later, like in 5 years as you bolded. You don't worry about that now. You do that now, they'll end up like Morin, Clendending, Stanton, Pirri, Dahlback. What do all of these players have in common? None of them could crack the lineup because there are simply better players in their positions at this very moment. and for this peaceful discussion, you may want or others may want to look in 5 yrs. i am using your number as this fix number for this discussion. it takes some 3-5 yrs for most prospects to develop. second, older players contracts will start to need to be replace soomer than those 3-5 yrs. injuries to main players need to be look at the goalie will need to be look at. so in this example, a continuous pipeline of prospects needs to be develop, in other words, an org needs to be looking for prospects to develop it can't stop this part of the development.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:10 PM) 1. Yes, Bickell contract is bad. 2. Two really bad players? Daley has looked excellent this preseason and is a lot faster than I thought. If you wanna bring up Dallas' defense from last year, they had one of the worst defenses as a unit. Daley playing with Hammer has looked great. Garbutt produced 32 points 2 years ago and 25 last year, so at 900K, plus a solid two game, he is not bad. The only thing I was upset about this deal is that it included Johns 3. You don't find many top pairing defenseman, so if you can keep them, you keep him, not to mention Duncan Keith might have the best contract in sports. 4. Saad priced himself out of the Hawks range. They got a 2nd line C for him and Saad's future replacement in Dano. 5. Both of them are the face of the franchise, they've done so much for this city in bringing hockey back and came into the league together. I have no issues with their contracts there is an inconsistency in yours and other posts. on one hand, many defend seabs contract and idea of the hawks org to keep the core together for a long time for continue SC runs. yet you can justify Saad situation and try to sugar coat the whole thing while levying the future of Dano .... the lack of Saad and all he brings to the team, will be lost and dano is not on the team. here is a rhetorical question, can any great GM can find a way to juggle today's hard salary cap restrictions???

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:05 PM) You know what you get when you can't depend on your D-men? Dallas the thing is, many yrs ago, before the first or the three SC, the hawks really need to be prepare to start every season ready for a battle. a battle for self pride and for the defense of the SC .... the holiday of celebrating is short lived.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:01 PM) It's not so much "questioning" as much as it is the following: Stan is not great at knowing the value of a player. Examples: He gives Bickell that ridiculous contract He turns Patrick Sharp and Stephen Johns into two really bad players He overpays Brent Seabrook He moves Saad to keep Seabrook. Seabrook is over 30 He fails to negotiate Kane and Toews separately, when Kane is a behavioral problem and Toews isn't. He's fortunate as it almost blew up in his face. He won three Stanley Cups. That's fantastic, but the fact of the matter is there are better rounded GMs. In 5 years, I'm concerned the Hawks will be old and bad. If the Hawks were interested in longevity, they shouldn't lose Saad for essentially nothing and they should have done everything to keep Johns. He gave up the future star defenseman to overpay a post-prime defenseman. And Bickell is STILL killing us. with everything you posted aside, i am going to talk about this bolded part. the hawks, imp should be looking to replace the older players with younger ones. the hawks can't expect the level of performance to be elite as they get older.

totally not related to anything mention this morning. Viktor Svedberg was sent to rockford. due to salary cap reasons. the last pairing of the dman, can they be really dependent on.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:39 PM) But I have? Explaining all the trades that got us young players, then that were developed and priced themselves out of the Hawks pricing range, and then developing those young players that are currently on the roster. (Teuvo, TVR, Dano eventually) ok lets start this again. i gave bowman his credit. right or wrong? there was mistakes made ... right or wrong? any dispute any have in anything or everything i post is your problem