LDF

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 01:21 PM) I think he'd dominate AAA hitters and not develop the change up at the same time. I'm going to trust the White sox with pitching well, i too trust the sox pitching staff. the sox REALLY need to find out what they have in EJ. is he a mlb pitcher or a AAAA / minor league career pitcher.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 10:27 AM) what does scott boras say? nnniiiccccceeeee

QUOTE (asindc @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 12:34 PM) a and c are not indications that they didn't follow their plan. in following a plan, i really can say that A. was not in anyone's plan. to look confuse, undecided on what to do. we can look at the results of some of the other trades that were completed and know a similar pkg was there for shark. many teams would have made that trade earlier in the week. the reason why i say that, b/c the longer the team, who is the buyer, want that player before the price got higher or another team gets involve. any way per mlb rumors, the sox were the ones who were undecided. it was stated. c. even at the last part of the day, teams who needed a quality pitcher, a pitcher who can help, that offer had to be on the table. even if it was not ideal. now is the real question. was the offer on the table still better than the comp pick that the sox was sure to get. here is a interesting idea. i wonder if hahn was quick on his feet when a plan goes askew. having the ability to make changes on the fly. now a side note.... nice debate.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 10:05 AM) I think this deadline proves that Hahn is running the show, if Kenny was in charge a move would have been made or better or worst and Kenny would not aknowledge the team's long term future. you know, i agree. i can almost sense that the debate was raging and someone had to make a call. that is the owners. but not trading is not everything, the non decision was a great lost of opportunity and may have hurt the rebuilding.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 07:31 AM) Shades of the 90's Red Wings . Everything old is new again. Bowman deja vu. Head Coach Scotty Bowman compiled a line for Detroit nicknamed The Russian Five, also known as the "Red Army," after finding out that many Soviet teams frequently put their forwards and defensemen together on five-man units. The group included Fedorov (centre), Igor Larionov (right wing), Vyacheslav Kozlov (left wing), and Slava Fetisov and Vladimir Konstantinov on (defense). That's from Wiki . Those Red Wing teams were damn good. you know, i never thought of that idea. very interesting point of view. the other point of what you are saying of the russian line, it take a intuitive set of dman. now that i am coming down from my excitement. i am analyzing the whole thing, the hawks lost 2 forwards who scored over 20 goals per. a rhetorical question is how will they replace that production.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 02:39 AM) Except those are the people they are trying to keep engaged. A plan does them no good if their fans think they quit. then and i mean by this statement, whom ever developed the plan, do not think highly of the fans intelligence.

QUOTE (MuckFinnesota @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 02:30 AM) I'm not sure that standing pat at the deadline was the best move, but it was what I expected. I don't think the return for Shark would have been as good as what the Tigers got for Price either. At the end of the day, the Sox can move Shark in August (unlikely), take the comp pick when he walks this offseason or sign him to a new deal. The best move? I'd say let him walk and take the pick. What I'm upset about is that they have Danks and LaRoche under contract for next year and they'll have to play them. What really sucks is that the free agent market for 2016 isn't that great considering they won't go after Price or Cueto and a lot of guys that are noteworthy are in their early to mid-thirties. At least it will be exciting to see how Hahn will improve the roster with a lot of guys under contract for the next two years. It would be awesome if they could get a new SS, (I know that Anderson is in the wings), catcher (Matt Wieters is a free agent) and make Saladino the every day third baseman (if he keeps this level of play up). no one can say that.... no knows what the sox intentions were in the beginning of the trading deadline. if adam was gone, then many would not have see the gem of his pitching ....

QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 12:47 AM) Well here's the thing. With the results from basically 3 years of play I would rather have Kenny as the General Manager. All the "right" moves Rick has made and such little results. He doesnt deserve the benefit of the doubt. We act like he's built a clear contender before. He has a year or two to get this right. Hopefully the damage isnt too bad if/when he leaves. i disagree b/c we can not factor the KW influence in the equation, esp in the off season and now at the deadline. and if anything, i can say that b/c KW is hahn's boss.

QUOTE (asindc @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 03:12 AM) How do any of us know they didn't? Do you know what was offered for Shark, or asked for in return? by default, the actions of not trading shark. we as fans can assume that by the following results: a. the sox were undecided on what they wanted to do. sources>>> mlb rumors. b. the sox waited too long to decide and the market wasn't there. >>> no trade c. the sox must have had offers on the table that were batter than a comp pick coming back. now the value of those picks come into question.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 02:49 AM) But, otoh, if you allow the fans to "intimidate" the front office out of making moves, you're done before you start. Well, we can't do XYZ because of White Flag. Leading to, we can't realistically compete next year without trading away XYZ, which constitutes surrender in the minds of fans. In the end, they either don't have the will to win or the front office was nuts to think they could hang with these other teams like the Blue Jays, Royals, Astros and even the Rangers who were all operating like large-market teams. (Heck, the team that had just won 4 consecutive division titles just white flagged it when trailing the WC by the same number of games as the White Sox...) So you're stuck in this loop where fear of fan reaction forces you to do things you don't want to do because you know they're not consistent with building a long-term, sustainable model. i like this post... i agree.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 02:11 AM) Oh come on! I just checked in to see the score and the Yanks are about to score, again? Guess it was a good night for music and drinks after all. My heart goes out to Sox fans watching this game. my envious heart goes out to those who were at sox park watching this. .... all the positive momentum leading to this week, only to come crashing on a game like this.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 12:35 AM) Thanks guys. Sad that all of the updates meant nothing in the end, but maybe we'll make a waiver move! r u serious..... that is part of this board lore.... all the hype all the excitement .... that is what sox baseball is all about.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 01:57 AM) Correct. The media killed the Sox after that trade. if i remember correctly..... there was no internet so there had to have something to ignite it..... yeah it was the media. i agree 100%.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 01:47 AM) 100% wrong. The fact that you referenced the White Flag trade is exactly why they didn't trade Jeff Samardjiza. Sox fans are STILL bringing that up after almost 20 years. but it is part of the history of the sox.... anyway, during that white flag trade.... look at the date of the trade. however when the majority of the fans base was in agreement, this time around in trading, they waited too long.... or didn't want to do it. this has nothing to do with the white flag fiasco, this is all on the the indecisiveness of the FO.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 09:54 PM) Link oh great..... someone's playing. another 0 fer...

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 11:27 PM) I'll be following along online, the wife and I are going to chill to some music and drinks in the back yard tonight. Online is better than nothing. chill.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 11:41 PM) I get really pumped up around trade deadline, I guess. Having Twitter and all the new resources and whatnot certainly help. edit- also a kid during summer with nothing better to do than stay inside and catch up on trade rumors lol you did an excellent job of posting smart and interesting post. many thanks.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 11:43 PM) I'm not terribly disappointed, at least when it comes to buying. If we were 4-7 games over .500, then yeah I might consider giving up a good prospect for a guy like Cespedes, but given where we are and how much better the Blue Jays got, I would have hated that move. I think we waited too long to sell Samardzija. It was a seller's market, then suddenly it became a huge buyer's market, then all the teams that needed a SP got one, so I doubt there were very many good offers for him on the table today. I think we still need to evaluate Johnson as a candidate for next year's rotation, so I'm still hoping he replaces Danks in the rotation. Since we kept Shark, if we start losing again, it's going to really suck to not have any idea of how Johnson will do in the rotation going forward. You don't want to make that decision in Spring Training in 2016. But if the offers for Samardzija weren't great (and I don't think they were), this wasn't really that bad IMO. i totally agree. that was why i mention of bringing him up and have him share sport starts with rodon... like this the sox can see him in action. not during the callup session.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 11:58 PM) Selling some of your best prospects now for rentals or players who might even slump when you acquire them seems a bit shortsighted. I would have been onboard with Justin Upton, but not at the Padres asking price (whatever it was. We can reasonably assume that the asking price is the reason a deal didn't get done with the Padres and the rest of the teams). Upton is as prone to slumping as any player in the league. If you gave up Montas and Micah Johnson for him, just for an example, you'd feel rather silly giving up those assets for a player who might give you the same production out of RF that Avisail Garcia would. For assets like those, a sure upgrade is key, and rentals are only with you for too small of a sample size, that the production you want from them you can only hope to get in that small sample size, and you can only hope that the player hits one of his "highs" with you rather then one of his "lows". Countless times I have seen players traded for and performed at a mediocre level with their new team. Would anyone of us have traded for Melky Cabrera this year if he were a free agent afterwards before he started hitting? No. His terrible season would have been reason enough not to, and acquiring him would be a move based purely on hope of a return to form, at the cost of valuable prospects! Now, Upton hasn't had the same season as Melky, but like most players in the league, Upton is prone to slumping. You cannot acquire him and EXPECT that he will be an absolute upgrade over Avisail Garcia for the next two months only. You can only acquire him and hope that he performs up to his average standard, or better then Avisail Garcia. Would you have paid Montas and Micah Johnson for either of those hopes? If so, you are a bigger gambler then I. This is the problem with rentals. It also is a unique situation for the Sox, as they are not practically guaranteed a playoff spot, in which case maybe it's easier to load up on some rentals to fortify your depth for the postseason. But in the position they are in, and if the rumor is true that Hahn was able to stop Kenny from making a bold move, I give Hahn a lot of credit. Frankly, I trust Hahn's viewpoint from the business side of things more then Kennys. Kenny makes deals based off of emotion and Upton and some of the names floated are big names. He has the wherewithal to stand losing those prospects. Rick Hahn is going to be more objective, perhaps offering a viewpoint similar to the one I outlined above. To him, Montas and Johnson (which, again, are names I made up entirely) are too valuable of assets to lose for something that potentially will not give you a large enough net gain. There is the offseason to think about, and Montas and Johnson could be valuable trading chips for assets that will give you a player for at least a whole season, where you can ride the highs and lows with him if necessary, rather then a rental. As far as Jeff Samardzija is concerned, the Sox still have a shot at this thing, but trading him means you're giving up. Erik Johnson could come up and pitch really well, but that's something you're hoping for and if he doesn't, well then you're losing games you need to be winning. The Sox may have had an attractive offer for Shark, and maybe this is the battle that Kenny won, keeping him. You'll never know what was offered, but if it was just prospects a few years away, I'd rather keep him and take my chances on this year. You really aren't actually losing anything because the assets offered were never yours in the first place. Also, I don't think that trading Shark was as important to the franchise as some make it out to be. Yes, acquiring prospects is a good thing, but the future of the Sox didn't hinge on trading Shark. Unlike the Tigers, we aren't faced with a potentially bleak future, realizing it, and rushing to trade our rentals for whatever we can get. The Sox may not have the best farm system, but they can afford to go for it this year and not see long term ramifications... especially now that they haven't parted with some of our best prospects for a rental. All in all I think the Sox have an OK chance at a wildcard. That's pretty good considering where we were at not long ago. No chance. Given the abrupt change of circumstances I think the Sox played this deadline well. Nice job, front office. i do not have any inside info. but for this discussion i am going to say this. since upton was not traded, i imagine the asking price for the rtn was prob huge. fulmer, jordan guerrero and montas. they need pitching.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 11:09 PM) Also the way people around here have been touting the Shark compensation pick as something of value, I really hope that player drafted becomes a ML contributer. Otherwise I just can't believe of all the deals we've seen so far for rentals, the White Sox couldnt get even ONE player of value? Absolute s*** and I fail to believe that. When other teams were given up two, three prospects for Price and Cueto we couldn't get even ONE Top 10 prospect (basically the equivalent of what youd hope for from a draft pick in the 40s). I'll guarantee the issue was we wanted ML level players capable of contributing right away, basically playing the three year window nonsense again. i agree you here. i really think they the FO had another brain storming session and the calmer head prevail. they came late to the party. if they would have done it, lets say last week, they, the sox would have had that haul.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 10:43 PM) The quotes in the Upton thread suggested that the Padres weren't really interested in moving their guys and still think they have a shot at competing for the WC. "We need an overly strong offer to trade a guy" = to me "we're not willing to trade him". If you think you're in the race enough that you need "an overly strong offer" to trade a guy, then it's time to fill some lineup holes, like everyone else we're chasing did. Stuck in the middle = "we're just not willing to move him". could be, they didn't want to help anyone, and was asking for a "strong offer". in other words, blow us away with a offer if not, we will that later.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) nice.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 10:11 PM) Yeah, except instead of KW's bravado/aggressiveness...we get Hahn assessing the deadline like his newly acquired mutual fund's disappointing quarterly performance. i think, going into yesterday morning, the sox were basically in for making a run. plus was unsure of buying. then all the other teams made major moves and the cost to get the pieces was too much. people can say cooler heads prevail, i think it might have be a divided fo and 1 party won in convincing the owners not to make the trade to buy. but it was too late for anything else. basically showing a complete ineptitude in how the fo is being run by a 2 headed monster of different approaches. hahn statement is a fluff pieces, trying to show unity and perfect harmony at the office.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 05:22 AM) Can't acquire him then unless he's DH rest of the year. the sox dh is 0 fer now.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:16 AM) It was a nice run while it lasted but even with the run the Sox are still under .500. I hope Kenny doesn't mortgage the future on another long, long shot. The remaining schedule is very difficult and I just don't see it happening so I hope the Sox resist the urge and don't do something stupid. Mark mate .... it is too late now to get anything nice....