LDF

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 3, 2014 -> 02:28 AM) You realize that he missed the entire 2012 season with injury so his numbers that season include 0 hits, 0 home runs, 0 runs scored, and 0 RBI? His numbers last year included a 112 OPS+. He only hit 14 home runs last year, 28 this year. His numbers this year are spectacular. His numbers last year contributed about as much offensively as Adam Dunn the last couple years. The year before that, injured. without talking about players who are in their option yrs, why not look or kick the tire so speak on Hanley Ramirez, J.J. Hardy or even Nelson Cruz. players who can play multi position as well dh.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 3, 2014 -> 01:40 AM) That's the problem. After Quintana in value, you have Eaton and Avisail Garcia, arguably. RF and LF, along with C and 2B are the positions most in need of improvement statistically...and of course DH. We have a solution for 2B internally, 3B and probably Flowers sticks at catcher even though there are some possible improvements but a hard time matching up for a trade unless you deal Alexei. After Garcia/Eaton/Alexei, the players with the most value are Tim Anderson, Tyler Danish and Frank Montas in the minors, along with Rodon and Adams obviously. Courtney Hawkins would probably be #4, arguably. Davidson and Erik Johnson you have no choice but to hold onto and hope and pray for rebound seasons. I understand what you are saying and in some way I agree. the one point I do not agree is avi. he still hasn't hasn't proven anything. the players in the minors may not get the sox a lot. I rather hold onto them. the key in this whole discussion, which I truly enjoyed, is what edict will come from JR.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Sep 3, 2014 -> 02:20 AM) I'm not saying to trade Danks as I realize there's no market for him ( at this point) but theres no way I would trade Q because hes " over rated" so the Sox can sign less durable starters like Anderson and McCarthy which was the idea I was responding to in the first place. Just clarifying is all. that's kool.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Sep 3, 2014 -> 02:05 AM) The notion that Q is not a 2 is valid to some extent. His stuff is average and he doesn't have a true swing and miss pitch. His swinging strike rate is at 7.8%, which ranks 66 out of 95 qualified pitchers this year. With his stuff, hitters foul off a lot of his pitches and runs his pitch count up, and as a result he starts to reach his pitch limit around the 5th or 6th inning, that's why we often see him implode during that span. He should not be your second starter in a playoff series, especially with the added pressure. But given that, I still don't think we should trade him. He's got one of the best contracts in the league, and if we can put a legit #2 starter between him and Sale, that would be one of the best 1-2-3's in the league. I can live with him being a #3 with that contract. And we may already have that #2 starter in the system, and he can deliver as early as late 2015. ' 1,2,3 is good for the season. I am looking at 1,2,3 for the playoff. that is when it counts to me. as I said, the sox org need certain positional prospects. the sox have a key group of great players, I rather not see wasted.

I guess a lot of posters can use players to make their point, as I am going to do. what would you give to get a Joey Gallo from tex, plus another player or Gary Sanchez from nyy and 1 of their outfield prospects? that is what I am taking about trading for. if it is not Q then who?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Sep 3, 2014 -> 12:47 AM) It was 122 I think. I still don't think there is a correlation between the 2. 122 isn't that high and it was one time. If it happens repeatedly and it's a higher number then I would start to question it. I will give you that. but if he is not use to it or if he didn't build up to it, is the point I am trying to make. just in a fleeting moment of craziness, you let a pitcher throw those extra pitches. is what I am comparing, sale is a valuable piece of the sox future. I would gladly be wrong, if someone can convince me otherwise.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 11:42 PM) People seem to think that Quintana will immediately flop tomorrow. I feel like this has to do with how we acquired him. no one has said that, we are talking about tradeable assests.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 11:41 PM) Am I reading the last few pages correctly? Trade Q because he's overrated and merely a #3/4, keep Danks and his almost 5 ERA who's at best a #5, sign Anderson and McCarthy which both have injury histories only to kick Noesi to the curb despite making quite an improvement in a short amount of time? I'll ask again, am I reading this right? well danks being trade would be a fantasy dream. who can we trade him too?

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 09:36 PM) Even if that is the case, you replaced this #3 starter that is paid like a #4 starter with a handful of #5 starters that we will need to pay like #3 starters. What have you seen from Brandon McCarthy this year that says "I'd be comfy with him as a #2". the sox does not have depth that can be use. the only way is fa and then trade a good value player to get a good rtn, something we really need.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 09:32 PM) I think Quintana is overrated, I dont see a number 2, I see a 3/4 starter. What do you do when the market overvalues your assets more than you do? You work the market to your advantage and you make a move. i really hate to say, but i too think he is overrated. but if i am wrong, so be it. as i said before, beside Aelxia who else can we use as trade bait.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 09:17 PM) I think this post actually is a great argument for why we shouldn't be so flippant with good starting pitching with good contracts. hmmmm interesting..... flippant? i got to think about that.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 09:02 PM) If you want a good tradeable asset, the one to look at (IMO) is Alexei. If the Sox feel that Sanchez or Semien (or both) is/are ready to be major league shortstops, Alexei will get you good value in return in a trade. There are other pieces that could be traded as well, but either for lesser returns, or at the profound detriment of the starting rotation. you got a good point. the cuban factor i was worried about it, now it is gone with the first yr together. however i weak point, how much offense will the sox sacrifice at ss from this trade.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 08:37 PM) I think this point gets overlooked a lot because it's so obvious, but this is why free agent signing isn't optimal. You have a 30 year old in Nick Markakis who could legitimately get anywhere between a 1 year, prove it sort of deal or a 4 year, fairly high AAV sort of deal, and anywhere in between. Note that those do not include the possibility of a QO which will hurt his value and remove a number of teams from his bidding as they will look to acquire someone else who does not cost a draft pick. Due to the complexity of the free agent market and having difficult evaluating it at this point in the process, it's hard to count on free agents. We had a few people on here indicating the Sox were going to be in the Hunter Pence sweepstakes too, and willing to bid a significant amount, until he re-signed with the Giants on a monster deal. They were going to be in on Brian McCann (and I think, either directly or indirectly, Hahn even mentioned his name) until the Yankees gave him a mega deal. If you trade, you can typically work with 1 party and worry less about others. You pick up a little more certainty (both in terms of what it will cost both player and financially) and predictability in the trade market in exchange for giving up players you have for control. The Sox have favored that market a little more in the past. It's going to be an interesting offseason, perhaps just as much if not moreso than last year. excellent point....... damn good.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 11:28 PM) I like that Rodon is apparently finished for the year. Its been a long year for him so let him go home, rest and get ready for ST. I can see Rodon leaving Arizona with the Sox next year. unless there is a wink wink call up to the majors before the end of the sept. i know what the twitter said, but i will believe it when sept comes to an end/

QUOTE (ptatc @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 08:57 PM) I don't think it had anything to do with keeping him in the game. Injuries and soreness happen when pitching. Sale has had similar experiences when only throwing 80 pitches in the previous game. do you by any chance remember the pitching count? wasn't it over 120+ and so far in the beginning of the season.

QUOTE (professa @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 06:18 PM) Why would you trade someone from our area of weakness (pitching) for an area that is somewhat a strength (hitting) when you can address offensive needs through free agency without giving up a prospect? We have plenty of $$ to sufficiently address both areas. name the strength you are mentioning. Beside Jose A and Aelxia. ref free agents signing, do you not think other teams will be doing the same thing?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 06:11 PM) I really don't think the White Sox have the starting pitching depth at this point to be trading Quintana, unless they are blown away with an offer. Looking at next year, you currently have Sale, Quintana and Danks... and who? Some two from this list: Hector Noesi Carlos Rodon Erik Johnson Chris Beck Scott Carroll Bassitt is, to my eyes, a reliever (and could be a good one). So I don't include him. Looking at those five, Rodon likely makes it, and Noesi can work as a #5. But that isn't exactly an ideal rotation anyway. Between Johnson and Beck, you'd think one of them may turn into something, but you don't know. If you trade Quintana, you really have a major pitching problem unless you acquire another arm. the sox don't have depth in order to trade from. i am meaning quality depth that would make the other team mouth water. the only 1 to use is the pitching. the sox will have, hopefully a top 10 pick, who knows who they will pick. rodon adams and others who are producing. this is the only area where the depth is. re Johnson, again i hate repeating the same word is unknown. which side are the sox going to see? the side of him struggling or the side of him pitching well. 1 of the pitchers can net the sox top quality prospects in rtn.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 07:39 PM) This is it. The controversy is would Sale throwing 91 in the 7,8 and 9th inning be better than any of the fresh relivers? The answer is the Sale would be but many of the other pitchers would not. So to work with the pen the teams "dumb down" the really good pitchers to the level of the guys who would not be in the league 15 years ago. The supply may be unlimited but the quality of that supply is not. speaking of sale, do you remember when robin kept sale in the game, early in the season. sale wounded up missing some time b/c of a sore arm.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 03:48 PM) I did say pitchers were throwing harder these days. If you throw 90 MPH, you are a soft tosser, but power guys used to throw a lot more than 110 pitches back in the day. As I stated, those guys didn't also throw sliders or cutters. Or if they did throw a slider, it wasn't meant to be the wipeout pitch most want it to be today. The increase is a cumulative thing. There are more guys on the staff who throw hard and you have 7 or 8 relievers who probably average 93 or 94. another point is alot of young players are pitching and are expected to use an assortment of different pitches to be successful.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 06:09 PM) Yes, but it boggles my mind why teams don't do this more often. The White Sox seemingly have moved the bar to 115-120. It would be interesting reading a gamethread where there was no gun or a pitch count wasn't available and no one would count pitches, how different the comments would be on managerial handling of the starter if he went far enough into the game, that it made a difference. Before they started showing pitch counts on broadcasts and in the park, it was a number that was so disinteresting, Baseball-Reference doesn't even have the numbers well into the 1980s. i remember a time when the game will start and the pitchers are throwing in the 92+ then by the end of the game they are at and 87 range. the other point is they were expected to complete the game started.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 05:54 PM) So, FutureSox did something new this year - we posted a daily recap of the day's MiLB games (nearly) every day. We had a handful of people involved, though most recently it's been Rob and Daniel, who have done excellent work. With the full season affiliates completing their seasons, the recaps are basically done for the year. We would love to hear your thoughts on these recaps. Did you find them useful? How often did you read them? Is there anything we can do to enhance them or make them better, for next year? The readers in this forum are among our core reader base, so your thoughts are important to us. Let's hear your feedback! the work that was done on this site was great. i appreciated the hard work. i read them every chance i can depending on work. i went so far as to read some of them twice. again great job.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 05:34 PM) Jim Maloney threw 160 or more pitches in his no hitter. Before pitch counts became a fad that was not unusual and i remember a pitcher who pitch a double hitter, i believe for the white sox. those pitcher had a limited life span, with re to pitching.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 05:10 PM) If that gets you close, then the answer is "no". Garcia himself could provide 80% of what Stanton projects over the next 5 years. he is still an unknown factor with potential.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 01:59 PM) I've never understood moving Quintana at this juncture. You'd be moving Quintana in the hopes that at least one of them turns out like Quintana, so that you can sign him to a deal like Quintana's (when we don't have to move or need to move Quintana). hey heads how is it going????? for a response. there are 2 factors to consider. 1. known and unknown players. Q is a known commodity. the prospects coming from the minor league are unknown. 2. window of opportunity. the sox are soooo close with a couple of smart pickups. the sox need to strike now, meaning the offseason to get those missing parts. the sox will have sale, eaton, jose in there prime. the sox have rodon, the young infielders, maybe even a couple of unknow pitchers, and yes even avi coming it to produce. who can we trade other than a known piece to get a max rtn.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 04:52 PM) It's more the fact that there are more pitchers needed in today's game. Many of the pitchers on rosters now would have been injured or burned out in the minors 10-15 years ago. The slider isn't the problem. It's the fact that pitchers are trying to throw harder more often. Part of this is that they know they only need to go 6 innings. alot of you are missing the point. Tanaka threw 160 on day 1 of the playoff, the next day, day 2 of the playoff he threw an additonal 15+ innings in relief not including the rest of the playoff games. this on top of throwing a 200 + innings of regular season. over use