santo=dorf

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> His K rate has decreased as well, so what does that mean? Regardless of all the offensive stats you can put up, he is the best defensive 3B in the MLB, and with some power and a good avg, it makes him valuable. It means he's still popping the first pitch up. I agree with everything else you said, as long as we are basing it off of the 2006 season, and he is a very valuable trading chip.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quick comment. I've read several posts in this thread talking about how Crede had a "moster year" "career year" etc. Have you actually looked at the stats? It was a good year, but not a great year. There were times where he was great. And there were extended stretches where he was bad. Overall it made for a good season. That's all. I hate it when fans remember a player's good play and conveniently forget when he was horrible. Let's look at the overall numbers. .323 OBP - not impressive .506 SLG - good .828 OPS - pretty good. Certainly not great. Let us not pretend that Crede has EVER had a great season. He hasn't. Will he get better? If so, how much? The answers to these questions is not obvious. Yeah but he won the silver slugger award!!!! VAfan, I have already shown you Crede's walk rate is decreasing BIG TIME, so it's silly to expect him to suddenly start walking at an above average rate. Crede amongst qualified third basemen: OBP: 20/22 SLG: 8/22 OPS: 9/22

QUOTE(VAfan @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Joe Crede ALONE is worth more than Santana and Figgins. Why do we always sell our own players so short on Soxtalk?? I tend to think Soxtalk overvalues guys who can't draw a walk to save their lives even during a "career" year.

QUOTE(SABR Sox @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 24.1 IP's............. ......6 GS. That's Jaret Wright territory. Of course, my post wasn't meant to be taken entirely serious. Jason, the Sox don't need to send Buehrle or any of their veteran pitchers to winterball because they are well established. If I had my choice I would send McCarthy to winterball unless he, the scouts, and Cooper feel he has more than enough time in Spring Training to become a starting pitcher again. I'm not entirely against getting Santana, but I'm sick of people undervaluing Garcia (especially with this market) and thinking Santana is a lock for Cy Young an/or 22 wins(yes people have made these claims.) Honestly, Santana looks like another guy who opens a lot of our eyes because he punks the Sox but has stats that tell another story. What good is a guy if he can only pitch in one stadium in the MLB, and that stadium isn't on the South Side? What good is a guy if he can't go 4 innings against any of division rivals, including the Royals? I'm not completely writing him off because he has shown some great signs of brillance (usually at home or against the Sox,) and he is cheap and under control until 2012.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> McCarthy, to my knowledge, is not pitching in the winter leagues. Does that mean he's injured, too? When has McCarthy battled with tendinitis in the elbow and shoulder? I didn't say Santana is currently injured as well. I was just pointing out his history of problems and procausions the Angels took after you wanted proof his health was reasoned for some concern. I thought my post was clearly tongue in cheek, but if people are going to throw out some of Garcia's starts to try and make a point on how much he sucked, why can't I do the same with Santana? If Santana came to the Sox, those particular ballpark numbers mean much more than a "day of the week" stat.

Santana @ ballparks in the AL Central (just for fun): 6 GS, 24.1 IP, 1-3, 8.14 ERA, 1.93 WHIP

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Garland pretty much held down the rotation last year. False. His ERA wasn't south of 5.00 until July. He had a great stretch from the Very end of June to early August. Had a terrible outing, and pitched well until the end of August. From Jun 30th to September 14th, he had 3 bad starts out of 13. Contreras had a much better run from the beginning of the season to June 16th. 2 Bad starts out of 11 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah. Santana just got done pitching 200+ innings for the first time in his young professional baseball career. Sending him to winterball would've been quite crazy and very stupid. Rex Hudler will love him then. Rex Hudler loves winners. They refused to let him pitch in winter ball last season as well. So by my count, since you asked for it, I have; Shoulder Tendinitis in Spring Training 2004, didn't pitch until mid-May Elbow Tendinitis weeks later shut down after hurting hamstring during rehab in July of 2004 Angels refused to let him pitch in winter ball after the 2005 season (After 144 innings) Angels refused to let him pitch in the WBC after the 2005 season (After 144 innings) Angels refused to let him pitch in winter ball after the 2006 season So obviously there should be some concerns over his health, and the Angels know it.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I haven't seen any evidence of shoulder problems for the last two years. So because he was shut down on July 15th of 2004, will he always be "injury risk?" He had shoulder tendenitis before in ST, and injured his hamstring during his rehab. The Angels also don't want him playing winter ball, and despites his wishes, he did not pitch in the WBC. I'm not trying to say he should be pitching for the Cubs, but let's not pencil him in for a Cy Young and 22 wins just yet. He isn't Johan Santana anymore.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Awesome, one random poster who isn't even 100% sure. In 2004 he was shut down on July 15th for a strained right elbow. The Angels also prevented Santana from pitching this winter. To be honest, and KW shares this opinion as well, I rather have the guy who had the srugery rather than the guy fighting through it. I remember when he said something about "going through the road" when picking up Jenks.

CWSguy, here is what I was talking about: QUOTE(WCSox @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, absolutely. I just don't see why the Angels would give up a young, cheap pitcher with electric stuff for one year of a past-his-prime Freddy at $10 million. The only thing I can think of is that they consider Santana a huge injury risk. IIRC, he had elbow surgery when he was in the minors and his small frame may not be able to support an arm that throws in the mid-90's. That may explain why they shopped him for Crawford and why the D-Rays rejected the offer.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Garcia had 3 months where his ERA was over 5. One month he had an ERA of 4.81. You take out September when we were basically out of the race and he wasn't good at all. Santana had the lower ERA and WHIP. You could do that with pretty much all of our pitchers and the conclusion wouldn't be any different. Garcia's numbers were close and arguable better (depending on what you weigh more) than "The Untouchable" Jon Garland. ....and for the 1 billionth motherf***ing obnoxious time, the Sox were still in it WAY into September. Personally I thought they died in Oakland, the series AFTER GARICA NEARLY THREW A PERFECT GAME. Sheesh. Typical stupid Soxtalk double standard. Garcia's September = we were out of it and didn't matter. Thome's "bad" September = he wasn't there when we needed him the most.

QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Since when are 4.28 ERAs near 6? He also was ranked 2nd in BAA in the AL last year. I'm not sure where you are getting the elbow concerns from. He made 33 starts last year and was only injured once when a line drive went off his shin...and he made his next start. Check your numbers, or re-read my post. His career ERA NOT pitching in Anaheim is 6.46. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Elbow concerns? Link, please? I recall somebody mentioning it in the other Santana/Garcia thread a week ago. I'll see if I can find it.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not sure how Garcia's fastball of 84mph and dropping trumps Santana. Garcia was arguable our best pitcher last year and we would be giving him up for a guy with elbow concerns and an ERA near 6 away from Anaheim. That's how

Texas Rangers traded Alfonso Soriano to the Washington Nationals for Brad Wilkerson, Terrmel Sledge, and Armando Galarraga (minors). Texas then traded Traded Adrian Gonzalez, Terrmel Sledge, and Chris Young to the San Diego Padres for Adam Eaton, Akinori Otsuka, and Billy Killian (minors). Texas gave up: 46 HR, 95 RBI's, 41 SB's, .911 OPS 179.3, 11-5, 3.46 ERA, 1.132 WHIP, almost two no hitters against the Pirates 24 HR, 82 RBI's, .862 OPS for: 59.2 IP, 2.11 ERA, 1.073 WHIP 65 IP, 5.12 ERA, 1.569 WHIP .222 BA, .726 OPS in 320 at-bats Killian has atrocious numbers in the minors Galarraga got rocked in high A-ball and AA. Otsuka was so good, the Rangers gave away Cordero (who ended up being great) in the pointless Carlos Lee trade. Think Texas wants a mulligan?

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Then I don't trade him to New York and listen to other offers. That simple. ....and yet you will continue to pout how KW "can't get teams to overpay for one of our starters." Really fair.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Entertaining such a possibility, if Vazquez is going then we better damn well receive Pelfrey in return. ...and what do you do when Omar tells you he's not going to trade him for anything?

The Score has almost no credibility and George Ofman has even less. If this deal is made, I'm going to piss a little on the downside. Crede is overrated by this board, but only has two years left. Garcia is underrated on this board but only has 1 year left. QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Vasquez will go to the Mets if this happens. Why would the Mets be interested in our throw in from the Cotts trade?

If we want a hurt, lefty, lead-off hitter for LF, how about Brad Wilkerson? He might get non-tendered by the Rangers.

QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Nov 25, 2006 -> 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Left Fielder in a home run hitters park shouldn't be dropping in bunt singles then getting picked off -- He should be lacing doubles, taking walks, and hitting the ball out of the park. I'm not offering any quick fixes but Pods is def not the answer and it will be easy to upgrade that position because pods sucked so badly. I'd be willing to bet Gload could play slightly worse or the same defense while posting a 280/350/445 line. And that is just in house. Pods in the first half of 2005 wasn't get picked off. Pods was getting on base either droping the bunt or drawing a walk, and then stealing second and sometimes third. Considering he was a leadoff man, a spot in the lineup that can permit the lack of home runs, he did his job.

Pods dropping a ball near the third base line and getting a bunt single was part of his game. Of course that makes his BABIP higher and makes Scott "luckier." BABIP is a worthless stat. Pods was only good for the Sox in the first half of 2005 (.369 OBP 44/53 in the stolen base department.) He was hurt afterwards and his performance on the basepaths that half made it obvious.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Nov 24, 2006 -> 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would sign Roberts for 3 years / $ 15 MIL. Even if he is a bench player for the second 2 years it would be ok. I don't think that you can get him for that anymore. The other problem is that Kenny waited too long to extend Dye's contract and now he'll cost a fortune. If you were Dye, why would you sign so soon? KW can't force him to sign. QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 24, 2006 -> 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jim Thome was a disaster to the Philadelphia Phillies offense in 2005. He hit .207 and put up a .712 OPS. You'd have to be out of your mind to trade 3 people for him, right? There is a reasonable possibilty that the reason Podsednik was so very very bad last year was that he was hurt all year. We would not necessarily know this where we are sitting, but the man making the decisions might. If KW were convinced that all of Podsednik's struggles were due to injury and he would be healthy again in 2007, then that is not the worst gamble I can imagine (Especially if Fields spends the first month or two of the season playing LF in the minor leagues as a backup option). But yea, I'd still prefer an outside solution. The comparison to Thome is laughable at best. Pods has nowhere near the track record like Thome based on talent, results, and reliability. Even with a bad elbow and back, Thome's OBP was higher than Pods in 2005.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 23, 2006 -> 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Carl Everett's just a dumbass. Outside of Boston, what did he ever do at any point that said he had questionable character (ala drug or alcohol abuse, marital and/or other assault charges, or symptoms of insanity)? He doesn't believe in dinosaurs and he has issues with homosexuals, neither of which will ever effect his play on a diamond, unlike aforementioned character issues. When he was with the Mets he lost custody of one of his children for "excessive corporal punishment."

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Nov 23, 2006 -> 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> c*** is a very offensive word for most women and find it very demeaning. I fail to see the difference between one slur being more damaging than another. As for comics that use dangerous slurs in their acts recently, look no further than Doug Stanhope, Andy Andrist, Sean Rouse amongst others. Plenty of them have used very offensive slurs and offensive comments towards minorities, people with mental handicaps, etc. yet nobody raises any pseudoutrage. n***** is more demeaning because of this Country's history with slaves and the whole civil rights issues from the 1960's. c*** isn't that common of a word, has not appeared in print as much as "n*****," and does not refer to a race that makes up a good precentage of our population. c*** refers to a vagina. I don't know of any vaginas that marched through the streets demanding not to be referenced in that kind of way. The comedians you listed are nowhere near the popularity level of Richards, and your post about them using comments towards minorities, people with mental handicaps doesn't make it clear if they were talking to a specific heckler, or they were just doing a stand up bit about a person or group of people that may exist. I really want your thought on people who go to wrestling shows and chant "you f***ed up," "boring," or call wrestlers by their real names and ask about their divorces. Do you have a probelm with them? Do they have no right to complain because WWE didn't "force the people to buy tickets?"

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Nov 23, 2006 -> 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually people have been defending the hecklers. Plenty of comics with solid material have been heckled (see the Bill Hicks "I have a c*** and I'm drunk" tirade he threw at a heckler) Other comics have used slurs and insults to deal with hecklers and there was never any PC "pseudoutrage" about that. Any specific examples? Were any of them as famous as Michael Richards? Did these events happened at the same time with the age of the internet? Somebody always has a camera and there are sites that billions of people have access to that host videos so it's much easier for events like these to get attention. I watched the video you posted earlier, and that guy didn't use any racial slurs. He just called her a c*** a ton of times and it reminded me of Geogre Carlin (like you previously mentioned) calling out a heckler. They both do the same thing. They insult the crap out the person using general insults that aren't specific to a race or sex or religion and get the audience on their side to turn on the heckler. Richards sees on guy heckling him, and immediately insults him due to the color of his skin. This obviously offends and shocks audience members (you can hear the gasps,) and eventually the crowd turns on him by walking out. Nobody was laughing. Like I said before, if the internet and pocket cameras were around during that time, there would be more people reacting to those events like this one. You're right that nobody forced then to buy the tickets, or even attend the event, but as a paying customer for anything, you have a right to complain if it doesn't meet up to your expectations. One way is to voice your opinion right on the spot, of course that can be selfish and rude because you are interrupting the other paying audience members experience. If the heckler didn't like the act, he should have just got up and left, let the management know about the expierence, write a letter, or wait until the event is over and express yourself then. Using your logic you have no right to chant "you f***ed up" or "boring" at wrestling events because "nobody forced you to buy the tickets." Am I the only one who thinks you're way f***ing off base with that thought? Portable camcorders + Internet + washed up actor/comedian + using racial slurs = huge f***ing deal. Unless all African Americans are offended by any use of the "N-word," I also think it's silly to say he was offending "all African Americans." So how is it a white kid dressing up as an Indian doing dances at halftime is offense to all those Native Americans of the Illiniwek tribe, yet a white guy using a racial slur to attack somebody isnt? Oh right, I forgot about the childish "he started it" argument. :double rolly

Freel was terrible when he was given a full time role after the Kearns trade.