Chisoxfn

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 12:20 AM) I say LaRoche only because I don't think the organization needs another 2B prospect, nor do I think they need to spend a hefty price attempting to get one because finding an average to slightly above average 2Bman isn't that hard to do and the Sox have done it as well as any other organization; Ramirez, Iguchi, Uribe, Harris, Alomar, Jimenez, and Durham have all manned the position for roughly half a season to a full season for the Sox this decade and have, by and large, been atleast league average during their time at 2B. Getting a guy in LaRoche who has killed the ball at AAA in the PCL but has struggled in the majors - ala some dude named Quentin - for 3B this and next year would be absolutely wonderful. I have to imagine that's who KW is looking at from LA. I think a Lowe and Laroche for OC deal would make sense for the most part. I happen to love the s*** out of Lowe, although there is no denying his numbers would increase a bit leaving the NL (and Chavez Ravine). Lowe is essentially a bit better version of Jon Garland (albeit older). The guy is due to be a FA so the Sox still would be talking about type A compensation (no way is Lowe anything but A compensation, unless Elias hammers him for not having a ton of wins (he's thrown a lot of innings and posted ERA's under 4 throughout his tenure in LA). Essentially the Sox upgrade the rotation, get LaRochoe (thus making one of Fields/Laroche expandable in a trade for Roberts) and at the end of the day you'd say the lineup is better (Roberts is a better hitter than OC, albeit defensively you have to hope Ramirez is ready for SS). The rotation is much upgraded (Lowe immediately joins Vaz/Buehrle as the front line starters which takes the pressure of Floyd/Danks). However, do the Dodgers give up that much for help at SS (they are taking away from there rotation). If not, do they want Contreras because I would include Contreras in the deal if the Dodgers wanted him (again, I have no idea if they would actually want him).

QUOTE (JFields27 @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 11:01 PM) OC for DeWitt and something elses can be worked out id do that for sure .. DeWitt is a former first round pick, but he doesn't have star potential. The Sox shouldn't deal OC unless they are getting an attractive piece for the new few years (one that hopefully has upside). I say that because worse case, the Sox have an attractive SS for the rest of the season on there roster and than 2 top picks.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 09:30 PM) Also, I believe all Matt Kemp dreams can be put aside...not only do the Sox not need another outfielder, what with Quentin, Dye, Swisher, Anderson, and potentially Cook and Owens in the minors (and that's not including Wise, who wouldn't be a surprise on the bench next year), but there's bad blood between the Birmingham - who just so happens to be a minor league affiliate - and Matt Kemp. I don't ever see him playing in a White Sox uniform unless it's years from now. Great post, but I want to point out that the Sox seem frustrated with Konerko so you could arguably take Swisher out of that group. The inclusion of Cook, Anderson and Owens is a joke. None are major league starters (nor is Wise) so essentially you can say the Sox have 3 OF's capable of starting (Anderson/Swisher/Dye) however none of them are ideal CF'ers (Kemp is an upgrade in CF). Again, the Kemp is a dream unless the Sox truly believe they will move Paulie (whether its selling him low right now to a team like the Dbacks whose looking for pop (apparently the Dbacks are waiting to get all over Tex from the Braves but who knows how steep that price will be) or in the off-season.

QUOTE (BlackBetsy @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 05:48 PM) I started at 1999 b/c it was the year where the Sox had a ton of supplemental picks. And Kip Wells netted the Sox Todd Ritchie in probably Kenny Williams' worst deal. The 2004 draft was a real exception out of the last 10 years of the Sox drafting...not a rule by any imagination. Blind squirrels and nuts and all. Technically speaking Ron Schueler has always took the blame for the Ritchie deal. I still say that Kenny was the GM though. Man did I lamblast that deal at the time (I really liked the Kipster).

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 11:59 PM) So him helping us win the World Series 3 years ago gives him a free pass to suck forever? Don't take this wrong, I love Paulie and I root for him hardcore. His grand slam in game 2 was probably the greatest moment in my life to date, but this is 2008, not 2005. We want to add another one of those trophy things and some more of those shiny rings and he certainly isn't helping the cause this year. It doesn't mean you can't criticize his play. In fact, I don't ever have a problem booing when a player makes a terrible mistake. I personally rarely boo. Certain guys make my boo list though and its typically players that I can't stand because they get a lot more credit despite not being very good at baseball. That said, I think it goes too far if you boo him when they announce him in the lineup. If you want to boo the team or player after he makes a horrid play, fine, but anything past that is a little ridiculous when it comes to a guy that has had a tremendous career in Chicago.

I like it. This makes it sound as if the Sox would make two seperate deals, one with Bmore and one with LA (which could mean the Sox get something pretty good, ie Kemp, for OC).

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 03:23 PM) Although I have never been in that position, where I could be making millions of dollars per year and instead am making hundreds of thousands, I would like to believe that people would honor their contracts. You signed it, so deal with it. You knew when putting your name on that paper that you were going to get paid that much, under the rules of the contract. If you didnt like it, dont sign it, or you shouldve changed the terms of the contract when writing it up. Honor your contract. Thats my point of view. And yes teams can release guys under contract too, but they still have to pay that money, and if a guy is underperforming, then that team is stuck with that contract, they cant renegotiate with the player just because they feel its unfair. The NFL is a totally different game. You are one play away from a career or even life threatening injury and when your at the top of your level you deserve to get paid at the top of your level. If you don't produce the NFL will get rid of you immediately so it really doesn't work both ways. In baseball, I completely agree, honor the damn contract (that is because once you sign it you are protected where as in the NFL you have no protection). Now once you get one big contract, than at that point I will defend someone who holds out a lot less (I ripped into Urlacher for his actions).

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 02:04 PM) Oz already said Clayton would start in 6 days. Glad to see it. Sounds like he was solid for a first time start. Too bad the defense didn't step up for him cause that would have potentially helped him. Either way his velocity was higher than expected and you can't be ashamed when you strike out 7 guys in 4 innings.

In fact, in this instance can you really blame Hester. He's scheduled to make like 425K. Yes thats more than most of us make but given that he's the top performer at his position (EVER) and now opening camp as one of the starting WR's I would expect to get paid more. Especially when he's yet to get a "set for the rest of his life" deal. I expect a short term type of extension where the Bears give him more money up front and agree on negotiating again a year or two from now (basically a 2 year extension from his current deal with a good chunk of guaranteed money) when he's proven himself more at the WR spot (in which case the team will step up and pay him like a top WR). He's apparently asking for 6yrs 45M.

QUOTE (rangercal @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 02:45 PM) This is Urlachers Fault for b****ING and JA's Fault for giving in. Should have traded him. Believe it or not , principles go a LONG way. Have fun being a DOORMAT JA! Didn't the Bears actually step up when it came to Urlacher or man up. Urlacher held out and the Bears didn't really get serious with Brian until he finally returned to the team and at that point the Bears stepped up and made an offer that will keep him in Chicago for what will likely be the remainder of his career.

Oh man, that was entertaining

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 12:09 AM) so, largely because ESPN hasn't been shoving it down my throat, ramming it up my ass, and trying to shoot it into my bloodstream all at the same time, I had no idea that Daisuke Matsuzaka has an ERA of 2.63 this year. Aside from absolutely horrendous control, he has been money this year. Maybe I've just taught myself how to zone myself out of ESPN at the right times now a days, because I was actually surprised to see that. Just weird Were you listening to Cowherd this morning? Cause he was mentioning that exact thing.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 12:04 PM) The only value I see Cabrera has to the O's is the draft picks at the end of the season. The way I understood it, we would send the Dodgers Cabrera, the Dodgers would send over prospects to the O's, and we would get back Roberts(and probably send over a prospect of our own). I understand that. The O's weren't going to be getting OC, but somehow there was talk that the Sox would have to give up more than OC in order to acquire Roberts in a 3 way. That just doesn't make sense to me. I realize Roberts isn't a FA at the end of the year but I still think OC is more valuable. Now if the Sox were making two seperate deals (which could be the case based on some of the wording I saw) than I could see the Sox not having enough to get Roberts (especially if they are hesitant with giving up Fields).

So the O's seriously think an above average offensive 2nd baseman is more valuable than a gold glove SS who is also a very solid hitter.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 08:04 AM) Latest from Rosenthal via MLBTradeRumors: I would think the Sox would be getting something more than just Roberts in a deal involving OC. I don't know if that would mean someone like Daniel Cabrera or someone on the Dodgers. Either way I wouldn't be opposed to those three teams working something out.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 22, 2008 -> 03:24 PM) And if he wants to go. Thats a given, but if the Sox force his hand I can't see Paulie stepping in the path of a trade (assuming he's getting dealt to a potential contender). The most likely fits are obviously the Dodgers and Diamondbacks (two teams that could be interested in adding some pop to there lineup).

Paulie should be fine and the Sox are probably best off letting Paulie play the 2nd half because he will produce. Given that production the Sox will than be able to trade Paulie in the off-season (if they want to) and not only be able to get rid of his contract but also be able to get at least 2 good prospects in return (what I would call B to B+ prospects).

Geeze, I liked the strikeouts but the rest of his numbers are downright atrocious.

Wolf actually could have been a solid pick-up as a 5th starter to replace Contreras. He has some solid looking periph's. The risk is that his actual ERA isn't that good, especially when you factor that he'd be going from PETCO to the CELL and the NL to the AL. This would have been a solid pick-up for any team actually in contention (ie, not Houston).

I should also point out that if Danks/Floyd don't tire than I really don't see why the club has to make another move. Bottom line tihs team has very few big holes (aside from the rotation that I see tiring out and its not as if you are going to bench Floyd/Danks). If Paulie gets going and Thome keeps producing at the clip he has the past month (and the rest of the offense stays consistent) you should see this team have at least one or two more good winning streaks in them.

I honestly hope there aren't any changes. I would love to see the Sox pick up another starter but the reality is the price to get such starter is too steep. Plus I just don't see such a move making the Sox a World Series contender. I think the Sox have a playoff caliber team but given the reliance on two extremely young pitchers (who will see there numbers trend upwards as the season progresses) I just don't see them being able to beat out the Angels/BoSox. I would only make moves if they are the type of moves that help the Sox long-term and I don't think Kenny has the guts to make those deals (as they could potentially make the club worse or even less experienced right now). The reality is the best thing this franchise could likely do is stand pat and prepare to make additional moves over the off-season (unless a good ML for ML swap opens up which helps the Sox). Parting with Crede or OC could be both be legitimate options if it gets the Sox pieces to help the club this year and beyond, otherwise moving them is foolish given the picks we will be getting as compensation for there depatures as FA's in the off-season.

The Dodgers aren't going to move Kemp unless they get better this year and that means they are either getting a freaking stud 3Bman or more preferably (from the Dodgers perspective) an all star type of shortstop. Nowhere in that deal do they get it. Had the Sox offered up Konerko/OC/Poreda for Laroche and Kemp you'd possibly get them to bite (and them to be willing to actually take on Paulie's contract).

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 22, 2008 -> 11:32 AM) We always talk about Kemp. Are the Dodgers willing to trade that guy? Yep, If you are to believe the LA Times which has indicated the Dodgers offering Kemp to upgrade SS.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 22, 2008 -> 10:08 AM) Personally, I would like them to try to turn Cabrera into Brian Roberts. A 3 way with the Dodgers mak be able to do that. Why when the Dodgers are offering a superior player in Kemp. The Sox should be able to acquire Roberts without giving up one current major leaguer (Package involving Fields, SP prospect, Richar). If you want to trade OC you better be getting a very good young player in return (otherwise I'll take the 2 picks). The Sox should not trade OC for an aging ball-player. Now if you could hypothetically make a 3 way trade with the O's in which: Sox: Kemp, Roberts Dodgers: OC, Crede (I don't know if they want Joe and if they don't the deal could obviously still work, Sox would just have to give up more) Orioles: Fields (or LaRoche, depending on there preference), Richar (or Getz), Broadway/Egbert (one of those guys as I'd hold out on giving up Poreda unless the Sox were getting a solid prospect in return or a Daniel Cabrera type pitcher).

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jul 22, 2008 -> 10:44 AM) Kemp and LaRoche would be a nice package to go after. Fields + Konerko + Poreda maybe. The Dodgers could always move Loney back to a corner OF spot. The Dodgers do need power hitters in the worst way possible. If you want to make an interesting offer to the Dodgers, throw Crede and Cabrera at them and see if they bite. You'd be able to get Kemp and another prospect or two (which you could use to target a starting pitcher the club would have interest in).