Chisoxfn

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 02:02 PM) That's pretty funny. Age is pretty much the first thing I look at after the general "statistics". Age is incredibly important. I actually disagree. Age is very relevant, however it has to be factored in with a few things (is a guy raw...ie he didn't play high school ball or he is being converted to the pitching position, etc). For 98% of prospects you can pretty much rely on age, however, you always have those guys that played college ball, get drafted as hitters fart around and than someone turns them into a pitcher (ocassionally vice versa but it usually happens this way more so than the other) to take advantage of there arm (more often the conversion actually occurrs at the college level but it still leaves the player a couple years behind). Than of course there is catchers, who naturally have a longer developmental period (so its more typical for a catcher to be a bit older than most of the guys on his minor league team). This means that the player is naturally going to be at lower levels at an older age, however, it also means he's more like a high school player than a typical college player (despite age) and nothing says the player won't have a successful career (however, it obviously would be on average a shorter career as he'd reach the majors at an older level). s*** just look at Ryan Howard...he was an older prospect (should people have wrote him off because he was a bit older for a first time rookie or should they have considered the fact he has amazing stats and part of the reason he was old for a rookie was partially because of who he was being blocked by...Jim Thome).

Pedro Alvarez. I don't even want to think of Smoat as of this moment. I'm also curious to see what sort of prep players emerge. Although I was incredibly dissapointed when the O's came to terms with there #1 draft pick (absolutely stud catcher) as I would have gladly taken him with our first overall pick.

Dodgers probably figure based on the starting pitching market a healthy Elo could be dealt in the off-season or they could always afford him in the rotation (when he's healthy he's more than serviceable, especially in the NL). He also is coming off of two very good starts and bottom line the Dodgers are desperate. This also tells me that the Sox could probably get someone do to a similar deal for Contreras (ie someone to pick him up) but Ken Williams is going to try and get something for him (as opposed to just completely letting him go for nothing..even though I still say addition by subtraction because having that payroll off the books is very valuable).

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 11:55 AM) Both Iguchi and Mackowiak will be available via free agency this offseason if the Sox just can't go on without them. I think there is a chance Mack will be brought back. Or at least a decent one. The thing is Mack was making too much for a bench player on a poor team and the Sox hopefully will use some of that money on the draft and international free agents in the up-coming year (same with Iguchi's money).

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 01:22 PM) Uribe is much better than Eckstein defensively, and SS is a defensive position. Eckstein f***ing sucks and this club would be completely stupid to sign him as he will get a multiyear deal when one year is too long. I'd much rather sign Vizquel for one year around $2 million, but I still think that isn't that good of a move. ...and the idea of getting Tracy, who is more injury prone than Thome, hits LHP much worse than Thome (.413 OPS this year against them,) and doesn't mash RHP anywhere near as well as Thome, to help platoon DH with Crede (sucks offensively,) Fields (still a long way to go) to replace Thome is quite f***ing stupid. Glad you continue to completely ignore the fact that Thome will be worthless for the Sox in one year. Plus I do not believe that Tracy is more injury prone than Thome as Tracy has had an injury (tendinitis in his knee) but it is the sort of injury that with a full off-season he should be good. In addition, sans this year he has been healthy his entire career while Thome has been completely unhealthy for the most part the past couple seasons (albeit productive when healthy but thats pretty meaningless when you are good for 2 stints on the DL per season, plus you already miss all the interleague games when we are in the NL park (while Tracy could actually freaking play in the field and help out in numerous areas). Oh and Tracy is actually getting better while Thome is getting worse and the Sox need more guys that are on the upward spiral rather than the downward spiral. And just in case it matters...Tracy had played in 154 games last year, 145 and 143 the two years before that (his only 3 seasons at the major league level and even if you factor in this years 75 games he averages 125 per season). You also have to factor in that his first two seasons he wasn't necessarily a full time starter as he was a young player still sitting out on ocassions due to developmental purposes (so he could have potentially played in more games). Thome on the other hand is averaging 112 games per season over the past 4 years (one of those being an extreme injury season, much like the one Tracy is having this year...however sans each players one major injury one has proven to be very heatlhy the past couple years while the other is old and continues to break down more and more). So give me a f***ing break about Thome being less injury prone.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 12:48 PM) I, personally love the idea of Brent Lillibridge. Or a player like him (the Sox can use some of there prospects and do a swap of prospects as Lillibridge really doesn't have a spot in Atlanta). And I'm sure there are other guys out there that are in similar situations and I am quietly hoping Kenny uses some of his young arms (even guys that some of you may not think have much value such as Sisco or Thornton or MacDougall or Floyd or Broadway or McCulloch or Russell or Masset or even Eggy) to acquire some prospects at positions we need them. I'm not necessarily saying you'll be able to trade Broadway for Lillibridge but maybe the right package and you can. Or maybe you deal a guy like Masset for a little older prospect that has had success but never had a position because he's blocked by major league talent (yet this prospect still has talent, its just his value has dropped a bit based on him not being able to get promoted to the majors). Those options are out there, but its going to come down to Kenny being a little ballsy and taking a chance (something I'd like to see) as well as our scouts doing an excellent job identifying these guys that could be had without giving up any major long term chips (Gio Gonzalez, maybe Egbert is considered this as well but I included him on the list because i would deal Egbert for Lillibridge or any other upper echelon prosepct, although I don't know if the other organization would consider those sort of deals).

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 11:37 AM) Cmon, Jason. We're dead last in producing much of anything resembling an offense. Since 2005, when his OBP reached a respectable .363, he's steadily taken less and less walks per season. His stolen base totals are nothing to admire, either. When coupled with a complete absence of power, what good is he? These aren't facts which support anything resembling a solid leadoff hitter. I agree he's an improvement over Uribe. But ultimately, how much do the White Sox improve over this season due to this signing? Does this make us a playoff contender now? Honestly, i'd rather trade any of Thome, Konerko, Garland -- acquire (among other pieces) several promising MIF prospects -- and go through their problems for 300K than deal with another walking grinder. It's just another no-nothing move. Since we're probably not going to be winning anything for quite awhile, while not set our sights towards acquiring young talent for SS rather than waste resources on Eckstein? Completely pointless, imo. Only purpose it serves is to give the illusion of improvements. A feeling of "anything is better than Uribe." Sure, for one or two seasons. Then who replaces Eckstein? I'm saying if you are taking the approach that your going to go the veteran way, than the above is what I would do. I think we all know I'd prefer to get rid of a lot of the guys making over 10M, load up on young players, combine those guys with a few veterans and try to see what we have next year (if we are close, than move a player or two to fill a couple of holes that you weren't able to fill with young players and that could hopefully get you closer to a playoff appearance next year, but at the same time your still on track for 2009 and past. I think its the safer way to prevent a massive 5-6 year collapse (at its best, because if things go bad next year, this club may be completely screwed for a lot more than 5 or 6 seasons, however, they still are at the point that if they made some trades of there more talented older players and loaded up on young talent and got a bit lucky they could be in it next year and if not as long as they scouted and did well and didn't get really unlucky they should be in very good shape for 09/10/11, especially if they were able to find ways to add vets into the mix or trade for younger players (maybe guys close to getting contracts that you could deal for at a value because you'll have to shell out some money to sign even) to team up with these young prospects. However, it doesn't appear the Sox are going to go that route and that they are going to try one last season with a lot of this core and based on that the above is a scenario that I still think helps the Sox and makes them a potential contender, but still slightly makes the club younger and gets them some young prospects as well so that they won't be in quite as bad shape in 2009 (if 2008 does go wrong as you would have at least 4 young position players already starting plus a couple young starters that you can use in 09 as opposed to if we stick with everything we may not even have that nor would we have any young talent coming up as well).

F it...go for Andruw Jones...move Jim Thome.

QUOTE(Felix @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 10:55 AM) Eckstein: .679 OPS Uribe: .629 OPS Thats not significant, especially when you're considering the fact that Uribe is having (basically) the worst year of his career, is 5 years younger than Eckstein, offers excellent defense, and is likely cheaper. I don't give a s*** about OPS when I'm talking about a SS, especially when I'm talking about a guy that has proven to be a solid leadoff hitter (despite my absolute hate of Eckstein). IF we were talking about a middle of the order shortstop, fine, ops matters, but not when the Sox have a drastic need for a leadoff hitter. I also want the Sox to go hard after Chad Tracy as I still don't see how the heck the Dbacks will have room for him (he's missed a good chunk of this year with injury but he would provide a very good lefty bat and could play in LF/3B with Fields at the other spot (if the Sox non-tender Crede) and if the Sox listen to me and move Thome than Tracy could play some at either of those two spots (with Crede starting at 3b) and someone always getting ab's at the DH spot as well. You can tell me how Tracy isn't as good as Thome, but I also say you get young talent for Thome (some of which will help you recover from what you've had to give up to get a young player like Tracy) that can hopefully help the Sox get a lot more athletic. In fact, I'm all about moving Thome for young prospects (hopefully one of them is a middle-infielder) and than signing Andruw Jones, trading for Chad Tracy, signing David Eckstein (who plays some at SS, some at 2B, but solidifies the top of the order while the young SS acquired in the Thome deal and Richar both develop at the major league level) and you keep Joe Crede (or you can opt away from Crede). The Sox while dealing Thome, lose a bit of offense, however, in adding Tracy/Jones (or Hunter/Rowand, but I'd prefer Jones because he could be a middle of the order masher that has a better long term future than Thome and I'm buying on Jones being much more like the player he's been most of his career) you really have significantly upgraded this roster. Hell, just look at this (if you keep Crede): Eckstein - SS Tracy - LF/DH Konerko - 1B Jones - CF Dye - RF AJP - C Crede - 3B/DH Fields - LF/DH/3B Richar - 2B Salary wise: Andruw Jones +$14M (I'm basing this on what he made last year and I don't expect him to make a significant raise from that, and he could actually get maybe a M less); Jim Thome - 7 M (ballpark based upon what the Sox are actually paying him); Uribe - $5M; Eckstein $4M (this could be high, but I think he could get something around this); Cintron, Mack, Pods, Erstad - 7M (probably a little more) So the payroll is essentially identical to the payroll of last years lineup (however you now have a cheaper bench with guys like Pablo, Andy Gonzalez, Jerry Owens...so you may still have a move to make here based on some vets on the scrap heap...but Sweeney may fit here as well). Now say you get rid of Crede (Thus saving additional money): Eckstein TRADE (you get an outfielder/SS/pitching prospect for Thome ideally otherwise you trade for a younger outfielder that has some speed) Konerko (you can mess with these 3 guys) Jones Dye Chad Tracy (3b or LF depending on who Ozzie thinks is the better long term defensive option at 3b) Josh Fields AJP Richar You can also move Fields up to the 2 spot in the lineup if you want to (and use the other guy somewhere else). Bottom line looking at either order I can say that odds are you get better production out of Konerko/Dye (as opposed to what they did this year as both performed under career numbers and still have stuff left). Jones is a significant upgrade to anything we've had in CF (both offensively and defensively). Josh Fields is an upgrade to the production the club got out of 3b or LF this year (same with Chad Tracy, same with a healthy Joe Crede); Eckstein is an upgrade to what Uribe did; AJP holds steady. Iguchi is a safer bet at 2B, however, Richar has upside but I could see this being one that isn't as good as in 2006. However, you have upgraded production everywhere (or practically everywhere in the lineup) and have not made any significant increases in salary. You have also gotten younger at 2B, LF/3B/DH, and have gotten a young SS prospect whose getting broken in as well as a young outfielder type guy and arm). This doesn't factor into moves that could be made to the rotation (as in this case you now would be able to move Contreras/Garland to free up additional payroll and land numerous arms to go with Vazquez/Buehrle/etc (or you can keep Garland and just use Contreras and hope to free up some payroll that could go to the bench or bullpen or whatever else).

I am not a big Eckstein fan, but he is the best FA option out there and would be a significant upgrade over Uribe (pratically anything would be considering how much worse Juan has been at SS this year and just how terrible he's been at the plate). However, a long term deal would not be wise. I wouldn't mind the Sox acquiring a SS prospect and than signing on Eck for a year (paying him a little more money over that year due to an option for yr 2 with a decent size buyout) while the Sox work a long term plan in (as the reality is they really don't have any SS options in house). Plan A would obviously be someone like Rafael Furcal or a top young prospect that we would get with Ken Williams making some significant changes to a team that apparently doesn't care (thats what the manager says at least).

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 01:07 PM) The reason they have all the teams close to one another is to make it easier for the instructional people to get from team to team and also to move players from team to team in emergency situations. Adam Ricks played two games in one day for two different farm teams. The Great Falls team out in Montana is there because the White Sox for whatever reason like the competitiveness of the Pioneer League. I would not be surprised though to see the Sox move the rookie league team (Bristol) into the Gulf Coast League but we'll see. Yep, not only does it make it easier on guys like Champion (roving pitching coach) but it also makes it easier for guys like Wilder/Williams/Lauman and everyone else involved in the minor league development (Ken Williams really isn't involved too much, aside from 1-2 trips he'll make during the season and I don't know how much Dave travelled this year but i know in the past he was always traveling amongst the affiliates). Plus all the affiliates are still within a close flight of Chicago (especially given that you gain an hour moving from Birmingham or Charlotte).

QUOTE(Markbilliards @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 09:09 AM) Ugh, Griffith joined Matt Long and Ricky Brooks in the club of unsuccessful 2nd round picks in the past few years for the Sox. At least he's young I guess, I hope he does better next year. I think based on how long Griffith sat out before signing the Sox just wanted to get his feet wet a little bit, but he'll start next year in Kannapolis and begin what will likely be a 4-5 year process (since he is a high school pitcher). I think we'll find out a lot more about Griffith next year, but he definitely has a bevy of quality pitches and now its a matter of working on honing those pitches, turning one of those pitches into a plus pitch, and obviously really developing better command. He has the raw ability though to be a good middle of the rotation guy, but it is so early so we'll see what Griffith will do.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 04:39 PM) Doesn't Egbert kinda have to be placed on the 40 man? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this his 4th season now in minor league ball? Yeah and he will be or at least I sure as heck hope he will be. The Sox have been protecting numerous garbage guys on the 40 man for the past couple years and Egbert actually has some potential, although I would really like to see him get things figured back out and have a good start before things end for him (although I don't know if he has one more scheduled start).

This sounds awesome. I'm really interested in learning a lot more about the Sox scouting approach. I've heard a couple things but am not as aware as I'd like to be in regards to the inside intracies of the Sox approach, especially with what they are doing internationally.

http://www.soxtalk.com/podcasts/august29.mp3

Sweet stuff...if anyone has any trouble getting to it just make a post as this is obviously our first time doing this thing live.

And we are off. You can also start following us on MVN starting in about a week.

Slow Poke...Haha.

We all know the Sox suck, but they still have to play the game and this is the official thread for Wednesday nights game against the Texas Rangers. Jon Garland will face some schmoe on the Rangers as the Sox try to score 31 runs. But enough about the Sox...listen to the LIVE SOUTHSIDE BASEBALL REPORT while you watch the club lose... http://ustream.tv/channel/the-southside-report

The Show will be on in about 10 minutes...ie 5:19 Central Time http://ustream.tv/channel/the-southside-report You can get the streaming show right there and we hope a few of you stop on and give us a taste of what the live experience is.

MP3 Version of August 29th's Show Link to the Live Feed (CURRENTLY OFF AIR) Thats right....the South Side Baseball Report will be airing live for the very first time ever tonight @ 7:30, so put the game on mute and listen to us discuss the Sox while you watch the game (no our broadcast will not be in any way shape or form involve any game recap or play by play...it just so happens the time that works happens to be during tonights game). Starting next week we will try and have a set time for a weekly "LIVE" show which will also allow us to take calls, email, and messages from you all. Tonight we will not have the phone capabilities up yet, but we will be taking emails (send them to Bullsback@gmail.com) as well as messages (AIM = DAGAGEDABOMB) so hopefully some of you can catch part of our live rant (and hopefully there won't be too many live follies). The link for the show will be posted around 7:30 Central time.

I should add I think Briggs could have been racing and lost control of his car because he has no idea how to drive a 600+ horsepower car (hell its a possibility).

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 02:07 PM) If assumptions and opinions (especially one acquired through common sense and reason like this one) aren't allowed on message boards, why do they exist? The Score and ESPN 1000 already have had stories on how Briggs was seen at at least 2 different nightclubs that evening, so it's pretty obvious what happened. Definitely drunk is not an opinion...its a statement. You can say that I believe that he was drunk, but to say he was definitely drunk is something else.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Aug 25, 2007 -> 03:01 PM) i suppose this is why you dont make assumptions, but i guess i assumed he had attitude problems after he got into the fight with his high school coach about his brothers playing time....i know that is what caused him to slip to the supplemental....but sounds like that was probably an isolated incident and he sounds like a good kid I should point out that Gio was never involved in that fight. It was between Gio's mom and the coach over Gio's brothers playing time and his mom basically used Gio as his bargaining cheap (which was out of Gio's hands) and because of it people assumed negative things about Gio (things that aren't true as the guy is total class).

Happy Belated Bday Row!!!