Chisoxfn

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 06:01 PM) Not exactly true. The last time we were this bad, we had a series of top 10 selections. That is where the McDowells, Venturas and Frank Thomas, and others came from. We didnt just find nuggets of gold, we had blue chippers that you could build your franchise around and we did. In the late 80s to the first part of the 90s we had some killer drafts and had one of the best systems in baseball. They also have developed Magglio Ordoenz, Aaron Rowand, Carlos Lee (all three have at least one all star game) and of course you have Frank and the other first round picks during that run. The Sox have not developed well as of late, think again, because i remember reading somewhere that we've drafted more guys that are on major league teams than most teams in baseball. The thing is, the Sox have also made a living on moving a lot of the picks for major league talent. The club has failed miserably with first round picks, but that looks to be changing with at least Josh Fields (don't know if I can say the same about Broadway/McCulloch..especially McCulloch who I consider a totally mediocre prospect jsut a year removed from being a #1 pick). Oh and than there is Chris Young and Brandon McCarthy who are two pretty good young players as well (that doesn't even mention Garland...who was developed by the Sox...Buehrle...Jenks (who became a pitcher with the Sox). I slam the Sox a lot, but there are still better than most organizations and its why they have one of the winningest records in all of baseball over the past 15 years ors o.

I'd have dealt Jon at the deadline for a lot and I'd do the same over the off-season. All that said I still have tons of faith in Jon but you can see right now he's not quite right. He still isn't close to being as bad as Jose has been, although he has had a handful of hideous starts the past 4 weeks or so.

QUOTE(shoota @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 08:09 PM) Actually, Farmer and Singleton mentioned how Jenks's fastball and curveball were up, something that doesn't happen with normal work. Yeah, lets blame Ozzie. f***....Jenks hurt is ankle and the sox suck, why in god sakes would we try to trot him out early (and the Sox weren't in a game late in Seattle so they figured why push it). Bobby had a tremendous streak and while he lost it he still got the save and thats all that matters.

Young stole home today...Dbacks still lost as Tex hit 2 hr's for the Braves.

It is official...per the Trib...Myers has signed with the White Sox and will be on the roster starting on Monday.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 08:18 PM) why the f*** am is on soxtalk righ tnow i should righlty been bangin jason gages familu all of em Wow, I'm gonna act like I never saw this.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 17, 2007 -> 06:00 AM) I heard that also. I don't know if he will be, but I hope he will be. That would be so great.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 02:05 PM) Just for s***s and giggles, I will be interested to see who pays for it since the Red Cubs have a pretty full outfield and the Yanks would seem to have bigger issues (1B, starters not named Roger). If he doesn't get a ton of major deals, I could see the Sox going for him. One thing people forget about the Japanese players is all the potential for additional/new sources of revenue that you can get if the player pans out. Hell the Daitske signing by the Red Sox is looking like a steal because of all the Japanese money that has been filtering into the Red Sox organization (money that they wouldn't have gotten a year ago).

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 01:56 PM) What's amazing is everyone has a problem with Uribe at SS but seems sold on Richar as a regular secondbaseman. Am I missing something here? If Richar and Owens and Andy Gonzalez get regular playing time next year, things probably won't change much. Richar is oozing with talent and I'm perfectly comfortable with him at 2nd. I'm so glad people continue to right off players after 2-3 weeks in the majors. Fields/Richard are must haves in the 2008 lineup. The Sox need to start breaking in 2-3 young players every season (1-2 position guys, 1 or so pitchers) and do it consistently. That type of mentality (albeit you have to have talented young players) helped the Braves stay so damn good for such a long time as it allows you to always have a good mix of talent/vet presence/young affordable players.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) I think a salary swap between the Dodgers and Sox makes a ton of sense. Contreras for Pierre or Furcal makes so much sense for the Sox, especially Furcal. Well if the Dodgers decide to go with Hu next season, than ya, Furcal would make an assload of sense and I'd give up a s***load of prospects for him. While I think he's a bit over-rated, he's a very good defensive shortstop that is a significant offensive upgrade over Uribe and he would also stabilize the top of the order. However, I would think the Dodgers would move Pierre before they ever moved Furcal because Hu could always end up replacing Kent at 2B while no matter how you put it Pierre takes up Loney/Ethier/Kemp's playing time. Plus the Dodgers need to find a way to get a power bat in (whether a 1st baseman or a corner outfielder). However, you also have to remember Furcal only has one year left on his deal which makes it less likely that he'd be a money casualty. I'd love a Furcal pickup, pending him signing an extension, but I think Pierre seems more reasonable (Dodgers more willing to part with him, due to him having 4 more years left).

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 01:41 PM) I'd like to see us trade pitching to get something in CF and then try and find a cheap, average player type option at SS who will play defense. We can afford to trade pitching for a CF and be fine there, and then at SS we kinda gotta get lucky I think. The best part is, if you can find a way to pull things out, you'd get your #1/#2 hitter from those two spots as well (thus giving the Sox increased speed over Erstad/Uribe who entered this season at those positions). Hopefully we'd get better production as well. Regardless the one piece they need to find, whether it is a SS or CF that does it, is there leadoff hitter. I'd prefer for that guy not to be a youngster, but if it were a real good prospect I'd still take my chances knowing at the very least at least we'd have a guy that should grow and get better and better atop the lineup. Hell, I still wouldn't be shocked with Juan Pierre leading off for the Sox (we know Ozzie likes him). I think the Dodgers would deal him on the cheap (picking up some of his contract). I doubt theyd' be interested in Contreras, but there would be some options in that type of deal as well (with the Sox getting an overpaid guy...even a Julio Lugo type, who they think could fill a hole and add the top of the order speed). And like him or not, Pierre gets singles and does what Ozzie likes (I'd like to see his OBP improve significantly though, but regardless he'll get hits at least and he's been a pretty resilient/healthy guy). He definitely wouldn't be my favorite pick-up, but I could see getting him on the cheap (a Lance Broadway or who knows who to the Dodgers for Pierre and a little cash). The move opens up a full time spot for Matt Kemp and gets the Dodgers another young arm (which they could use to get another bat somewhere else, plus frees up some payroll).

I call BS on Linnecum. I'd still rather have Andrew Miller (mainly because I'm more a tools guy and Linnecum's build and delivery scares the s*** out of me). However, of those guys you listed these are the ones I see with the ability to be front of the rotation guys: Miller Linnecum Joba Chamberlain Kershaw Kennedy/Scherzwer will have a couple good seasons, but will both be pretty solid pitchers (mid rotation guys) as long as they stay healthy. Kershaw is the biggest if, as he's still so damn young.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 01:32 PM) DH: Thome 1B: Konerko 2B: Richar SS: ? 3B: Crede playing for a contract LF: Fields CF: ? RF: Dye That doesn't make my eyes bleed at least, but we still have 2 glaring holes we need to figure something out about. Better than I thought we'd be at this point looking towards 2008 though, I like our pitching still. I don't mind this extension either, 2 years for JD at 11 million is worth it if he can be a 30 homer guy the next 2 years and hit .270, and I think he can. And what Rowand said about eating his words about not trading Dye, I echo those sentiments. Exactly...thats my thoughts. Either sign a guy like Willie for CF or find a prospect you like and get him (s***, Matt Kemp can play CF and I still say the Dodgers would move him for a guy like Garland). Could Kemp/Hu be at SS/CF. I realize you'd be counting on some youngsters atop the order, but you'd still have Konerko/THome/Dye/AJP/Crede/Fields so that gives you some relatively stable bats in the middle. You'd also have a lot more speed with Kemp/Hu/Fields/Richar all being able to move a bit and all 4 of those guys would be long term solutions as well. The problem is there is no doubt you'd be opening up a massive hole in your rotation (knowing that Buerhle/Vaz are your two aces and that after that you would have issues), unless of course you can move Contreras for something valuable. Or the Sox, could keep Garland and use guys like Sisco/Broadway, etc to trade for a younger CF and use another prospect or two to find yourself a younger SS that they like.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 01:33 PM) Given that he would cost about $5 million next year and that nobody knows how his back will hold up, I don't think that it would be stupid at all. If he passes his physical and is healthy, there is no way you'd get anyone near as good as Crede at 5M. If you don't bring back Crede, than it means you need to sign 2 FA outfielders (or trade for 2). Rowand costs 10M and gets at least 3/4 years and than who is the other guy I don't know (probably whichever vet sticks around and would take a 1/2 year deal). That costs a lot more than the $5M Crede costs and the one FA/Trade that you need to fill the outfield (with Fields filling in at LF). Plus doing this you are still leaving an opening in case you have a young outfielder develop who would than swing to LF or CF with Fields moving to 3rd when Crede leaves as a FA the following year).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 01:30 PM) While you can't go by everything Williams and Ozzie says, there words have been pretty strong abut the Fields/Crede situation, and they seem pretty content with Josh playing 3rd. It's not like the Sox are trotting out an All-Star in LF every game, if Fields was in the plans for LF next season, I would have to think he would at least be getting sporadic starts over the last month or so, and that hasn't be the case. I'm just not sold on Fields being the automatic LF for next season. It really doesn't seem the Sox are counting on much for Joe... IT is more that they are not going to play him at LF right now because they don't know whether Crede can play, plus they are going to want as much leverage as they can. Plus, moving to left isn't going to be that difficult. A full spring training, plus some off-season drills and he'll be serviceable in little time (He's a good enough athlete). However, if Fields makes defensive strides as the remainder of the season progresses they could decide they are better off going after a FA outfielder (or trading for one). The problem is if they do that than they really have two pickups left because I don't think they have any other ML starting outfielders on the current roster (that is if Fields is at 3rd). If you stick with Crede, than all you got to do is find a CFer (and I realize that isn't easy) and than swap someone at SS for Uribe. The more I see it the more I see the pen staying pretty much the same (give or take an in-house swap) with Contreras probably on his way out (and possibly Garland).

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 01:20 PM) Z made the right move. He signs in the AL this offseason and hears cries of bust for the next 6 years. Stay in the weakest division in baseball, get overpaid, and the fans dont watch the game. Its a players dream. Haha...thats seriously laughable. The move from the NL to AL wouldn't have a major impact on a guy like Z (not with his stuff). I realize his control problems would get him into a bit more trouble as he wouldn't have the pitchers spot to bail him out, but the guy has one of the best arms in all of baseball.

The best thing that's happened to baseball in the last 50 years was the invention of the Wild Card. It has meant more teams have a chance and when that happens it means you still have tons of teams competing meaning fans all over baseball are excited about there clubs shot. Plus, while ocassionally you have some mediocre teams getting in, you still only have 8 total teams making the playoffs (which is very few). God, I'd throw up if they went back to 4 playoff teams only. It would make things so much less exciting. However, I could see going to two divisions and having two wild card winners as it would mean that you are trying to prevent the mediocre team from getting in yet still having 4 playoff spots.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 01:23 PM) And a CF,LF, another bullpen piece..... The LF is already on this team...Josh Fields. Now that may only be for a year, but if Crede is healthy it would be stupid to non-tender him. Not with the defense he provides, plus moving Fields to left would stabilize the outfield offense (with Dye/Fields the d may not be great, but no one is going to tell me Fields couldn't be a serviceable left fielder and Dye, while declining is still at least mediocre in right). However it does mean you need a CF that has some good range and I think Willie could be that guy, obviously Rowand could be as well (but that costs a lot). Of course the Sox could also add Rowand for CF and non-tender Crede going with Fields at 3rd (but financially that will cost the Sox a lot more money).

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 11:52 AM) So going back year by year, how many guys put up the numbers that Vazquez does annually? Quite a few...prior to this year Vaz has been league average at best ever since he left Montreal. Not saying he never had the tools (I've always said he does) but there are boatloads of pitchers in baseball who have been better than Vaz over the last 3-4 years (albeit he's amongst the league leaders in strikeouts and innings during that span).

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 13, 2007 -> 07:49 AM) I doubt it. They'll have about a 60/40 edge though. There were 25 thousand NIU fans my freshman year when we were at Northwestern, had them greatly outnumbered at their own place, but people seem to underestimate the amount of NIU fans there are so to each his own. Although I am sure the Iowa fans will be coming from all over Wrigleyville in their Cub hats, Cub fans and Iowa fans really do go hand in hand often times, and I'll just leave it at they are about similar in intelligence usually. Are you seriously comparing Northwestern Fans to Iowa football fans.... I'm not commenting on the fans on this forum, but Iowa's fans will travel and travel strong.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 11:34 AM) Unless Petco has absolutely killed Greene, I don't his .276 OBP anywhere near the top of the order.... I could see that, but I seriously think Khalil is the type of guy whose numbers drastically improve as soon as he gets out of Petco.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 13, 2007 -> 08:52 AM) This is a damned important last six weeks. They have all kinds of starter candidates and need to get a sense of who they can rely on for 2008. It is possible those decisions have already been made. Then again, you have question marks after Buehrle, Vazquez, and Garland. With those three you basically know what you'll get, factoring in some inevitable ups and downs. Then you have guys like Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Masset, Sisco, Broadway, even Haegar, and possibly guys like McCullough, Egbert, Gonzalez and maybe a few more. The last three you don't really worry about for 2008 as they likely aren't ready yet. As for Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Masset, Sisco they have to do the best they can to figure out if these guys will contribute and be consistent in 2008. How they do that is a big question. But I hope they're not relying on Tucson to answer pitching questions. It is notoriously easy to misjudge pitching in that environment. From what I've heard...the org is incredibly high on Egbert and he's more ready than a lot of those guys on that list based on whats been going on down in the minors. I do think you are spot on with Gio, based on what a couple of us at FS have heard, Gio is likely spending another year in AAA (of course anything can happen...Danks was originally going to do the same but he pitched himself onto the roster last spring).

By the way, I still say that the Sox could also go with Fields/Dye in the corners and just sign someone like Willie Harris (which I think would be a smart move as he could be your top of the order guy, steal bases, and play a semi-decent d in center, plus he won't cost near as much as Rowand). You move Uribe and a prospect or two and find a shortstop (maybe Khalil Greene) than maybe move a pitcher to free up some payroll and get some other young prospects or whatever it may be (Mainly because I think at one point or another at least one starter is going to have to get moved for financial reasons more than anything else). Would you guys mind a lineup of: Harris - CF Greene - SS Thome - DH (I'd trade him but I still don't think it would happen) Konerko - 1B Dye - RF AJP - C Fields - LF Crede - 3B Richar - 2B

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 17, 2007 -> 08:04 AM) Somewhere near Mark's contract...? Not even close. Mark dropped trow and reached for his ankles with the Sox deal. He deserved more than he signed for. Mark would have gotten around Zambrano money on the open market with Zambrano getting a bit more (but he definitely signed for very close to market value on this deal or at least a boatload closer than Mark did). Plus as much as I love Mark...in terms of pitchers I'll take Z every day of the week over Buehrle.

This is a great signing. The guy still produces (we've seen him raking since the all star break). However, I would like to see the Sox move him to left field. I'm still curious how the hell they are going to find a way to build a competitive team without finding some good young talent that can step in (because financially I just don't know how they are going to do it since the payroll is pretty high right now). Still, really glad to have Dye inked because it means the offense should be decent next year (despite its woes this year....add Crede, stick with Fields, than you have Dye/Paulie/Thome and thats not bad). Of course I'd still move Thome for your young talent but thats just me.