Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 03:25 PM) Twins message board guy who is apparently well-respected and has a source says Dozier for De Leon/Bellinger is close Seems reasonable...I wouldn't think they'd make a move unless they know they can't get Turner at a price they are willing to pay. That or we will see something pretty quick about him signing elsewhere.

QUOTE (Tony @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 03:27 PM) Totally unrelated note: If Frazier isn't bringing back a lot of interest because of his 1 year left, I'd be fine trying to work out a small extension for Frazier. I think it's important to have SOME sort of leadership in the clubhouse, especially when there are a ton of young guys around, and Frazier seems like he fits that bill. Again, that's only if he is down for playing "dad" and Hahn can't get good value. Abreu also fits that bill and probably is too undervalued where it doesn't make sense to move him. I do think Frazier probably ends up netting us enough, but I think it is more likely that with Abreu / Robertson / Frazier, that we wait till the deadline. Melky isn't going to get us a ton either, but I"d think we'd move him now, although he isn't a bad vet to have around either. The interesting names for me are Q / Jones (now)...although we clearly aren't going to be afraid to move the other guys, but have ability to be more patient, imo (not that we have to act on Q / Jones now...but I think the Sox want to do a lot more sooner vs. later to get the rebuild process fast tracked). Especially since this is such a historically bad FA class.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) Unless I live in Charlotte or Birmingham, nothing has changed. Giolito & Lopez will be on our opening day roster. Moncada won't be, but he'll be up by June (no point in having him up sooner then mid May to ensure we maximize our value of him and get him for half of next year (on MLB roster) plus another 6 years of full control. Kopech is probably a year away as is Dunning.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 03:10 PM) Per the score, thoughts at the winter meetings are that this was an awful deal for the nats THey do get 5 years from an above average player.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:12 AM) I mentioned Soler for Robertson a few days back. Looks like the Cubs shot a little higher. I would have absolutely loved that deal.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 03:02 PM) The #1 and #2 picks are almost always solid regulars at worst and on average are stars. Sox don't just need to be mediocre, they need to SUCK. Getting one of the top two picks the next two years is critical. Sign Albers and Latos asap. No...we need to draft well and develop talent. I think everyone totally overrates top picks in baseball, especially in this era where you will no longer really be able to leverage the "extra" cash for more draft picks (since they are retinkering with the funds). Teams that pick in the top 5 don't just automatically get good. EVeryone here is totally overselling that piece. We need to draft well and higher you pick helps, but baseball draft is a huge huge f***ing crapshoot. Christopher Sale / Mike Trout are just some examples where the best player wasn't anywhere near the top 2 or 3 picks. Criticality is on our talent development. Also, look at last few years...a ton of high picks have totally busted (and that isn't anything unusual either). This isn't the NBA where the value of a top pick is clearly huge.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:59 PM) I'm still not sure why you don't think this is a GOOD thing. They NEED to suck for a couple of seasons to get good players. That's how this game works. We're not going to outspend the contenders in payroll. I don't think we have to suck cause draft picks in baseball are still a major crap shoot, but I do agree we had to make the moves we are doing to infuse the talent and give us a huge head start in pushing the restart button. Plus, while the Cubs had more money to spend, we have Q/Sale/Eaton/Jones/Robertson/Frazier/Melky to leverage to off-set some of the impacts of the Cubs spending more in FA / internationally.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) Hey great. Did you notice the emphasis on position players that they brought in? Did you notice the half a billion dollars they spent in free agency? What did the half billion that they do, do? What exactly did the Sox do, other then consistently suck the past few years? Yes the Cubs spent some money, but they also whiffed on quite a bit of that money. What exactly was your proposition...continue to half ass it? This deal was a trade of one player (who was very good, but probably someone who was overrated by advanced stats), for three guys who all have potential to be above average major leaguers...the exact time of quantity deal you had been looking for (albeit this focused on pitching talent...but you can't ignore value where value is...especially when a rebuild takes time). Lots of other parts to still dangle and continue to add significant talent / depth to the entire organization.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) We needed position players. We needed to target those types of players. Some pitching is fine. Almost all pitching is terrible. That is our problem now. How is that fixing anything? I mean apparently the plan is to keep doing the exact same thing we have been doing, but it is great because it will be new players doing it? Blah. I hate this so much. Trading Sale & Q, we had no pitching. You can't just do the exact opposite. What you need is an infusion of talent and RH just got three guys in this trade who all profile as major leaguers, two of which profile as potential front of the rotation guys and the other could be a starter or a closer. That is fantastic. Oh and again, this is just one move...nothing is done yet and they also will have money to add.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:43 PM) The concern now for teams that want #WhiteSox's Quintana: The acquisition cost will be exorbitant, given what CWS pulled off last two days. https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/806629361675882499 Haha. Good. Of course media loved some of our recent off-seasons too and we know how that worked out. I am hoping (for my own greed), that we see another two hauls come soon (for Jones & Q).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:37 PM) I mean, I wouldn't trade him for salary relief alone either, I'd want 1 quality prospect of some sort back, but a pick between rounds 2 and 3 isn't something we should be worrying about whatsoever. I'm just saying, there is a minimum we have to be willing to accept, cause there absolutely is value to the draft pick. I'd want an Austin Barnes type player in return (guy who we think has a shot at being at least a league average starter and probably another arm or something to go with it...probably pen arm as you aren't going to get a starter with upside to boot).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) We HAD to get position players. That is what got us into this mess in the first place. You couldn't not get pitching prospects back, either. We needed a massive talent infusion. More should be coming and obviously we also have a full year of Timmy Anderson and hopefully Collins on there way soon too (and obviously Tillson will get a chance too).

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) Dude I'm as excited as I've been in years. To me it feels like the early 90s again. Sox are loading up on young talent and if they can get a few studs out of like they did then it will set them up for a great run in the next decade. I get that you're disappointing to see favorites go but ripping the bandaid off has long been overdue on this roster. And in 5 years, when we are ready to win the series...we will have a lockout (I'm somewhat serious when i post this).

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) Dude I'm as excited as I've been in years. To me it feels like the early 90s again. Sox are loading up on young talent and if they can get a few studs out of like they did then it will set them up for a great run in the next decade. I get that you're disappointing to see favorites go but ripping the bandaid off has long been overdue on this roster. I hated watching a team of hasbeens and bums who played fundamentally poor baseball the last few years. I literally can't remember enjoying the Sox less than what I have during the past couple of years. Exception was the first month or so of last year. They were awful to watch....and nothing to really look forward to in terms of long-term progress / hope.

QUOTE (Soxnfins @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) If Turner signs elsewhere, could the Dodgers get desperate and give us one of Bellinger/Joc/Lux? Always been a fan of Alex, he played hs ball at my brother's high school and is from my hometown of Kenosha. Absolutely not.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:30 PM) You realize that his pick will be after the 2nd round right? Yes...which means I don't just trade Frazier for bodies..I need actual players. I also view it that Frazier has potential bounce back upside and we could always move him closer to the deadline. That said, I feel RH has some urgency to fast track all of this, so we are probably going to see more guys moved sooner vs. later.

Q is the only other player I can realistically see moving at these meetings. Market hasn't moved enough on closers (Chapman / Jensen still available) or 3B (Turner) for me to see the Sox having enough leverage / other teams to have the urgency to maximize our value (yet). Will be interesting to see what happens with Q.

I would think if we moved Frazier, we'd be talking about Walker or an Austin Barnes....something along those lines. That said, I see very few scenarios where Frazier is moved now. Dodgers are probably the primary landing spot and they won't move on Frazier until Turner's market has settled (nor do I see the other teams looking at Turner moving to Frazier until he moves). Lack of FA market should help us a lot with Frazier. Despite a down year (outside of HR's), I think the weak free agent class will artificially inflate back up his value to where we should get a piece or two that could help us longer term (where as Frazier doesn't help longer term). That said, we need to get enough back that outvalues the pick we'd presumably get with him.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:21 PM) Nats fan: To me, the big thing about this is we got three guys who could be high upside. Yes, bust risk exists, but getting three high caliber players is fantastic. I like this haul as much, if not more, then the Red Sox haul and the combo makes me feel better then Sale in isolation. Still, a lot of work to go and obviously a lot of risk in what the club is doing (but hey...not like we are defending divisional champs or anything, haha). Very nice to see us, seemingly, take a very distinct and clear direction. I'm curious to see what else happens...Q obviously is most intriguing.

QUOTE (Tony @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:14 PM) Yes sir. This is only the start. Long overdue. Obviously acquiring talent is key...now we need to develop that, plus existing talent that was already in the system (and then add more via drafts, etc.).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:14 PM) Frazier and Cabrera absolutely must be moved. The others we can be a little more hesitant on if we want. I agree...I think Frazier, Melky, and Q all get moved now. I don't know that we get enough to move Abreu (and he has a nice vet presence that he brings to the clubhouse)....Robertson I have no problem holding onto for a bit. I'd be more aggressive dangling Nate. Now the question is what FA flyers do we try to make to buy low and hope to sell at the deadline.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) Robertson, Jones, and Frazier can bring something back too. Not anything top 50, but something. Jones has pretty significant value (depending on how teams view his injury history).

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) There's still plenty of time and trade chips and drafts to get more hitters. Don't fret yet. Q is going to get moved...I have to think....we also still have to move Abreu, Frazier, Melky and Robertson in the next year (most likely Nate Jones as well). Plenty of options to land more positional talent.

I see us moving Q for positional talent....Bregman clearly comes to mind.

Wow...Hahn is moving fast. Eaton and Sale gone...two people in Laroche gate moved (also two of our three players with most leverage). Would have figured Nats would have been in on Robertson, but this looks like a very nice deal. Figured we'd target more pitching. With Eaton moved, I have to think Q is on the move as well. I would have liked Robles in this deal, but can't take major issue with who we are getting back.