Chisoxfn

I need another option. Depends...if we add another impact bat, yes. That is my answer.

Balta - I think someone mentioned right now, the Sox are 1st in the division in projected WAR (or maybe it was 2015 WAR). That is a stat you had always thrown about (and I believe they were 1st in the division in projected WAR prior to acquiring Frazier so I presume this will increase their margin). We all know teams are still rebuilding but you have touted on that stat a lot in the past about where the Sox fell short, but isn't that a pretty good indicator of where they are headed (vs. even last year where those projections didn't add up). They have significantly upgraded 3 positions thus far. If they are done, I'd argue it isn't enough (as the Royals seem to be undervalued through WAR and I presume they still have moves to make to fill out their roster). But this division is totally up for the taking. If the Royals resign Gordon that would restore them (as everything stands) as the favorites in my eyes, but they have some players who might be due for some regression. Twins & Tribe? Sure they could take steps forward but this division, with the Royals losing Cueto, Gordon (possibly), and Zobrist (along with all the assets that went with acquiring Cueto & Zobrist), they are much different than the team that won the series a year ago.

QUOTE (staxx @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 10:58 AM) The negativity about this trade is unbelievable. What Trayce did in the last month is the type of player he is going to be. Probably a 75% chance Montas is a reliever, and I'm not even sold he'll be successful at one. Isn't it really like 5 people that are negative vs. 25+ that are positive? I think their is a segment, including myself, that views this deal as positive as long as it isn't the final piece. If we are going to contend, we need to build a team that truly can contend. That team exists if we find a significant upgrade in the OF (offensively and defensively). Anything more, at that point, is gravy. I think the package with the Reds was fair and I love the fact that Frazier can play above average D. Only thing I don't like about Frazier's game is the lack of OBP.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 10:48 AM) If you replace Avi Garcia with Justin Upton, I don't think any team in the division has a better line-up, and our starting pitching is top tier as well. Eaton Melky Abreu Upton Frazier LaRoche Lawrie Avila/Navarro Saladino That's a strong line-up with some decent speed and power. Not to mention you have one of the best defensive left sides of the infield in baseball The team has clearly upgraded 2B, 3B, and catcher. If we upgrade the outfield, in theory, we also will have significantly upgraded the bench and our DH spot. So we'd be a deeper team that upgraded numerous positions.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 10:24 AM) Please stop raining on our parade. Thanks. I think point 1 is open for debate. If point 1 is true, than my opinion of this deal changes significantly. I can't argue points #2 and #3. #2 is entirely plausible and #3 is factual (although I don't know that I go as far as saying dynamic..but they all have at least one outstanding tool).

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 10:24 AM) Please stop raining on our parade. Thanks. I think point 1 is open for debate. If point 1 is true, than my opinion of this deal changes significantly. I can't argue points #2 and #3. #2 is entirely plausible and #3 is factual.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 10:11 AM) Cespedes for the rest of us? No. We have added a solid and an above average baseball player, that said, both struggle at consistently getting on base. We need to address that and Cespedes just isn't near the OBP guy. I bet the Sox have Abreu spending a lot of time with Puig on this trip to Cuba. Maybe Alexei too (as I still think we bring him back at the right price). That said, org is very high on Saladino's defense @ SS. I am thinking the Sox are going to surprise us and it won't be one of the FA guys we've been talking all along. If it is one of them, I think it will be Upton.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:33 AM) The Sox farm system just went down a couple of pegs. I really liked Micah and Montas who was throwing 100 at a game I was at. Trayce is overrated but would be a great 4th OF. This move is fine as long as they don't stop now boys. If you go into the season like this hoping for Avi to finally discover the difference between a ball and a strike, not only do you waste Sale, Abreu, Q. You also waste half of your control with both Lawrie and Frazier. It is imperative to get another bat for the OF. Agreed. I wonder if the Sox are going to use some additional bullets for a younger, cost-controlled guy or try and buy low on Puig. The whole just spend $20M per year long term is pretty risky vs. trading for a younger asset (if you can find it).

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:29 AM) I have to say, I find this deal fair, and it makes a lot of sense. I'm nervous, because every deal Hahn made that has been fair and makes sense has been a disaster. I agree this deal is fair. I'd consider it a slight win if we make the OF move we are all waiting for. If we don't, than I think much less of this deal.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:24 AM) Seems logical. Upton or Cespedes, and what comes of Avi? I still wish we could get a left handed bat. I presume Avi will get a platoon type role (which is fine).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:23 AM) I think Frazier is all the Sox received. Unless the Sox go all in and get Upton or Cespedes, I do not like the deal. If they do, OK. Agreed. I think if we intend to compete, I'm fine selling high on Trayce and well I liked Micah a lot but if his D can't stick fine (leverage an asset we weren't going to get value out of). But only if we intend to truly contend. That means we need another outfield bat.

Now we have to be getting ready to land an outfielder. Has to be part of the plan.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:18 AM) If Either is coming back as well, if it's really Montas-Micha-Trayce, I LOVE IT. Sox would have to be getting cash as well. I have to think ethier is not a part of this deal. So Montas, Micah, and Trayce for Frazier and the Dodgers being intermediaries because Reds preferred their prospects.

I don't know what to think yet. Not enough facts / details out.

Wow...so Frazier to Sox, Ethier to Sox and Dodgers are sending prospects as a payroll dump of Ethier (plus we are giving up May and Montas)? That can't be or is that really it (and Sox are taking on Ethier to keep Anderson and Fullmer)?

Holy cripes. Is Frazier going to Dodgers or something? I'm confused

This was a really really great read. I don't really have any counterpoints and agree with what you put together. I do think moving Q and Robertson is the right move (vs. standing pat). I just can't support standing pat.

I thought Bush had the performance he needed 2 or 3 debates ago. As a whole, I thought he fared the best, but it is probably too little too late. Yet again I thought Trump was terrible. I stick to my guns that the only people on that stage who would get my vote (and I'm a registered republican) are (in no particular order): Bush, Rubio, Kasich, Fiorina, & Christie. If the other candidates end up getting the nod, unless something significantly changes, I'll vote independent or I will write in one of the above names. Rubio & Fiorina had their usual consistent performances. Cruz had a better showing in my eyes than any of the past debates, but I still don't like him. He's way too philosophical. Him and Rand Paul both have places, but they want to have philosophical debate and I don't really see either of them as real leaders. Not to many I don't agree with a lot of either of their positions. That said, I think they both have very important places in capital hill (as you need to have consitutionalists like Paul to make their stinks and protect the rights and similarly, people like Cruz aren't bad either...they just shouldn't be president). I will say...I would absolutely love to see Fiorina go at Clinton in a debate. Oh my god. Final Take: None of what I will say will matter and Trump will continue to control the polls. Why, hell if I know, but he will.

You end up with supplemental property taxes in those areas (like the mella roos I was referring to in California). The areas with newer property and better schools / infastructure have them and it stays specifically in that area so those who pay the tax, get the benefit for the tax.

The reason so many people have gotten down on Hawk is because we suck. Hawk is a ton of fun to listen to when the teams plays good baseball and enjoyable. When we stink, we can't stand him cause of his ridiculous statements he has to make to try and cover up the suck. Back in 05, when I was going crazy celebrating, it was great knowing Hawk was going crazy too. Even when we got to the playoffs...when Crede had his big hit...I was yelling JOE CREEEEDE like the time he hit that HR in September (or whenever it was) to pick up a huge win when the Sox were scuffling late (with the Indians gaining ground). Or the Juan URIBE with the extra emphasis. God I loved Hawk. He's driven me mad lately but anyone associated with the recent Sox product would probably drive me mad anyway. On an unrelated Hawk sidenote, the Will to Win made an appearance on a hillarious Jeff Van Gundy interview today (on the Lepetard show).

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 01:18 PM) If AJ retired he would have been an interesting choice. Maybe in a year or two. AJ is destined for greater things, just as an ESPN or FoxSports gig. Hell, I'd love AJ on the NFL Fox Sunday show, haha.

Cousins might be crazy, but he's a total stud. I'd be exstatic if we could get him. No idea how it would at all be plausible. But Niko and whomever...get the hell out.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 11:03 AM) JR went big at the time with Albert Belle, and was eventually saved with the opt out. Maybe something similar. Let Cespedes have a couple of stellar seasons and let someone else pay him during his decline. Cespedes in RF, Thompson in CF, Eaton in LF could be the best defensive OF in baseball once Gordon moves on from KC. I would rather have Upton than Cespedes because I think you are paying a bit for an outlier. But if you can get him reasonably and embrace an opt out, it could work well. I wonder if Cespedes, at his age, gets the opt out or is more focused on getting the maximum of the years. I would think a 3 year opt out makes him too old (or more risky that the opt out would be of value..I'm sure he asks for it, cause why not, but maybe odds of him truly leveraging it are less)? Unless of course it was a 2 year opt out. I will point out that Cespedes has been better for 3 of the past 4 years (going purely off of WAR) than Upton. It has been a while since Upton's beast years. That said, Upton has consistently posted stronger OBP and is a pretty consistent bet to pots an .800+ OPS.

I think I go Upton or Gordon. Both are solid OPB wise but Gordon I'd have to get a discount. Otherwise, give me the younger player in Upton.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 10:22 AM) and in those 10 yrs, that gm screw up the system that it is still trying to fix. in those 10 ys, they really never really drafted, back to back, rnd to rnd player who is worth anything to write about. and in those 10 yrs, those player did not get any better, thereby proving my point, he did not draft worth a damn Your point was whether he got lucky in that he never traded away good players. I argued he wasn't lucky. The discussion wasn't about whether he drafted well. We all know the Sox org has sucked from a player development perspective. That really isn't much of a debate.