Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 09:06 AM) They have to decide how to manage roster moves and playing time. It is not at all straightforward and they are right to be conflicted about it. How to manage roster moves of guys with negative WAR's? I really don't understand what their is to be conflicted about. AVI & LaRoche's combined WAR is -.3 (-.2 and -.1), respectively. I realize WAR isn't the end all be all stat, but it does magnify just how bad both players have been this season.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 09:04 AM) Unfortunately by waiting, we may have missed our chance to add meaningful prospects. Most teams that needed a rotation arm have already obtained one. I completely disagree with this right now. Shark is now the best pitcher on the market and the Angels, Yankees, and Dodgers are all sitting their needing pitching. I realize the Dodgers got Latos but what they want is a guy that can help the front of the rotation and the Giants just got Leake. Giants would probably still be interested as well and apparently Houston is still looking to buy too. Cubs have to be desperate for pitching as well (if they are going to give this thing a shot).

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:59 AM) If that's what teams are asking for a two month rental lets stand pat or sell. No thank you Standing pat would be awful. I think right now, the market for Shark is actually higher then at any point in the season. We have the last chip and their are still a few teams out their (vs. 1 team waiting for the last domino).

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:04 AM) Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 1m1 minute ago Teams talking to #WhiteSox say they're struggling with how impact of Cespedes or Upton would impact roster. Already overloaded at OF/DH/1B IF their is truth to this, I just shake my head. Overloaded with what. Garcia sucks and LaRoche has not been productive. What overload are we talking about? An overload of crap?

Anything we give up for a rental when our backs are against the wall, is extremely risky. Belton Bill Melton was on yesterday and he had some interesting points (later on he kind of went back on them though, but I'll ignore that for the purpose of this post). Bottom line, he said that he hopes Kenny and Rick execute on whatever they planned to do prior to the streak happening. If they thought they had the goods to win, then do it, if not, then do that, but you shouldn't necessarily let 1.5 weeks of play impact your decisions for the rest of the season. I am actually giving Bill Melton more credit cause he didn't quite say it like that, but it was his point. It is also why I believe it is imperative for the club, if it is going to buy, to buy someone who will be here for the long haul (unless the rental is so cheap it is absurd not to do it, such as Beck for Cespedes or something like that). We should be taking a quasi Ranger mentality (or almost like a 2004 mentality when we acquired Contreras) and while the move might help us contend this year, the goal is for this to make us a better team in 2016 & 2017. With that in mind, when it comes to Shark, Hahn and Kenny have a ton of leverage right now. Dodgers still need that upgrade (and the list of pitchers like Shark is small and some rivals, including the Giants have upgraded). Angels have to also be interested in another pitcher (especially given the moves the Astros just made) and I presume the Yanks would be listening as well. I'm not saying I'm ready to sell as I want to buy and have said I want to buy (but potentially do a controlled sell as well). Given where the market is, if the Sox get the right offer, I don't blame them for selling Shark while still buying a bat elsewhere. I also am okay with them buying a bat and going for this thing, but please, please, do not buy a rental or make a bunch of moves ignoring our future. And also, please do not stand pat. This team, without another bat, has very low odds at fending things off, and at that point, given the leverage I presume we have with Shark, we'd be better off moving Shark, getting some talent who could help us in 2016 & 2017, while giving Erik Johnson and maybe even Montas some time in the bigs to see what we have in them. We can always then make another push to sign Shark in the off-season (if that is the move we want to make).

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 05:59 PM) It really was a terrific, swift play from Shuck. It was no "can of corn"! Am I right guys??! *takes tomato to the face* Having Avi out of the lineup defensively is such a nice thing.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 05:52 PM) I think I rather have Anderson For Bruce, I'd start my offers at prospects not named Anderson / Montas / Johnson(s) but I don't know that the Reds would do a deal without getting at least one of those guys. I would prefer a package built around Hawkins and Beck or Danish (who I'm not as high on as others).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 05:53 PM) Part of the reason for a farm system is to be used for trade. The White Sox got a lot more value for the players they drafted than the players they drafted actually provided. They didn't draft well, up until Dunn, they hadn't spend more than $20 million on another team's free agent since Albert Belle, yet they had some good teams. They weren't really in a mode to trade their players for prospects, but recently things have become better with Jaye and Webb, and Montas Yep - Unfortunately who we kept didn't develop well either, but the bright side was Kenny used the bullets to by and large get far better players then we gave up. Prospects are to use to fill needs, both via trade and via their own performances when they come up. The key is being able to accumulate as much talent as possible and then be able to leverage it in the best interest of your club. However, if you can't accumulate the talent first, then you find yourself in a much worse position. Thankfully, the Sox seem to be doing a better job accumulating talent, although on the position side of the house, we are still struggling pretty significantly. Saladino / Sanchez / Johnson don't make me think otherwise, either. The best franchises do a good job of keeping the guys they believe in the most and moving the guys that they maybe have a little less faith in (and / or who don't fit as well into their plans given other players in the clubhouse). For example, Sox gave up 4 players for Shark, but I'd argue none of those guys were integral parts to any long-term plan. Did they have some value, sure, but in the grand scheme, the upside of any one player was very minimal vs. the upside of someone like Shark.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 05:44 PM) I think Bruce would cost to much. As it's been reported that the Reds wkuld trade Bruce for Zac Wheeler. I really don't want to give up Anderson in a trade, unless it for Puig. But that's just me. They would trade Wheeler for Bruce...doesn't mean the Mets were willing to and / or whether the Reds would take less than that (since we can presume that Wheeler hasn't yet been offered for Bruce). If you were to offer Anderson for Bruce (or Anderson and Beck), I think you probably have Bruce.

What happened? Sale get hurt or something?

By the way, Zach Wheeler the #11 prospect a few years back and actually has had a ton of major league success at a young age. So I have a hard time saying that the Astros gave up more then the Mets.

I would have probably traded 2 near top 100 guys for Gomez alone. Astros still have 5 top 100 prospects (after the trade).

Fiers and Gomez are both around next year as well (Fiers through 2020). In terms of Top 100 prospects, Brewers get 2: Phillips (#39) Santana (#87) Hader (#14 Overall Astros Prospect) Houser (#21 Overall Astros Prospect)

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 04:55 PM) RF is a bigger need. I think both are major needs, but that is because I don't buy Saladino at 3B long-term.

What did the Brewers get?

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 04:32 PM) Carlos Gomez and Mike Friers to Houston Wow, love the aggression out of Houston. As Dick pointed out earlier, the addition of the wild card play in game put a greater emphasis on winning the division and Houston has clearly upgraded their roster to try and keep them ahead of the Angels.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 04:04 PM) I would offer Beck to the Padres and Tigers. First to say yes has a deal. Done.

Longoria does get substantial value out of his defense, however, you'd have to figure it would decline later in the contract. He is on pace for a 4+ WAR season. Offensively the past two years have been nothing like his first 5 though and the contract arbitrage goes away to the point where he will be fairly paid.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 03:51 PM) Micah + Adams + Montas + Anderson... I still don't do that if I'm Tampa. Maybe they would but I wouldn't. They might actually do that. Not a bad package. 2 top 100 guys and 2 near top 100 guys. Problem with Evan is he has been the face of the franchise, which probably means it takes an extreme overpay and a much larger package.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 03:49 PM) Can Fulmer be traded? If we're trying to avoid things from the big league squad, Micah + Fulmer + Anderson + Montas could be close. If not then it's a price the Sox wouldn't do (Rodon/Quintana). No, he can't be traded till the off-season. PTBNL exception no longer works.

Longoria's contract isn't the bargain it once was, so I could actually see this working. I just think the Rays would probably want more then the Sox could realistically give up. Longoria has been trending downward though so you'd have to be cautious here (given he's signed through 2022).

Chuck Garfien ‏@ChuckGarfien 3m3 minutes ago Longoria is under contract until 2022. He's having a rough season (for him). His price is probably lowest its been.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 03:26 PM) I don't see Cespedes happening either. I was just thinking and trying to understand the Upton interest. Obviously the Sox are in need of another bat but what I'm thinking is that the main target is not Upton, but Ross. I'm sure the Sox would prefer a bat that is not a rental but if taking on a rental to get one of the best GB pitchers in the league is what it takes, it might not be so bad depending on the cost. I will say that Upton plays much better defense than Avi and hits for more power so there are two big benefits. I'm curious about what a package would look like. Avi, Erik Johnson, Micah Johnson + ? That is just too steep of a package to give up for a rental. I'm giving up that sort of package for Gomez or Reddick or someone else. I don't know that the other teams do it, but that is what I'm trying to get.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 03:11 PM) I really hope the Sox are not after Upton. He's a FA to be and K's too fricken much. Ross makes alot of sense though. GB pitcher that can strike batters out. Walks alot of batters but I can live with that. Ross would give the Sox an immediate replacement for Samardzija's rotation spot in 2016. From a Sox perspective, Will Myers would make more sense than Upton. If the Sox trade with SD I hope it's for Myers/Ross. He's in general a better player then Cespedes (and a better defensive outfielder), however, Cespedes is having the better year. I just don't see us trading within the division.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) I can't tell you how many threads have been started, cleaned up, combined, and deleted in the last few days because of no catch alls. I am guessing you aren't seeing half of them then. That is what we are supposed to do though. Just like titles of threads get updated to reflect changes in news status (e.g., trade from rumor to fact).