Chisoxfn

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 08:18 AM) I believe it mainly because it doesn't sound that outrageous. You never had a dad insert himself into a fight in middle school/high school? I think that happened 2-3 times when I was that age. So did he intervene to protect his son? It sounded to me like his son and him were arguing but I read one article yesterday so maybe more info has came out? And, I actually never saw a dad get in a fight but I also hardly ever saw any major fights. I certainly never saw a dad hit another kid. If a dad got involved, it was usually to pull / break up a fight, not hit someone (or to just ease tempers).

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 08:17 AM) Yep. My general summer league rule is that a guy playing well is meaningless but that a guy looking bad can be cause for concern. Completely agree. Guys that look bad and struggle are cause for concern. And not like, you had one bad night, but you have a consistently bad summer league and I think their is more their to be concerned. Millions of guys have just dominated the summer league and I don't think their was that strong of a correlation effect on their future careers.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 08:11 AM) Main thing I want to see is shooting. Snell last year was draining everything and looked like best player on court. Looking like best player on court doesn't mean they will be at same level during regular NBA schedule, but looking average on the summer league courts leads me to believe they will be out of league by end of rookie deal. Even Marquis made a decent summer league run. He has to look great in SL for me to think he has a chance. Forman mentioned Snell had been adding some more strength and was practicing really strong. I hope Tony makes another step forward. The reason I think the Bulls have upside is we haven't had a lot of continuity and guys like Snell / Mirotic / Dougie / Rose / Noah all have upside. Yes, Gasol and Butler have downside (but I could also say that Butler has potential upside as well...we don't know yet). But in my view I see more guys with potential upside. Note: Noah and Rose have upside to me because Noah was on one leg. I don't know if a normal off-season will help, but I'd guess it would and similarly for Rose. That said, obviously anyone could get hurt and well that would be massive downside.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 08:05 AM) they need a good back up PG that will handle and distribute the ball. Every guy that they have now either turns it over frequently, or is pass-first. Hinrich isn't awful in that spot. His efficiency was down last year and he lost his confidence, however, he can handle and pass. He isn't quick enough to break guys down like some point guards but their are worse backup PG options their. If other guys develop in the wing, it means less need (and really their should never be a need) for Hinrich to play at the 2. Maybe Hoiberg can get Kirk to be a lil more efficient, etc. That said, Hinrich is pretty old but I think a lot of his game at this point has to do with his confidence. Please note....I realize I'm supposed to hate Hinrich like everyone else here, but alas, I don't. If the Cavs had signed him as a backup, people would be going, how come we couldn't get Hinrich. And I'd be the first to admit that he was lousy last year (so don't think I didn't see it).

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 08:01 AM) Doug looked good last year. He just wasn't ready to handle the big boys when it came to defense. I don't know what to make off Doug. None of us really know how his injury impacted him early in the season and we obviously know it would be pretty tough coming back into a rotation after missing the time he had missed (and also with the struggles he had prior to that because of the injury). Then to get up to game speed on a competitive roster. But last year he was awful (he was fine in summer league but awful as a whole). Hard to argue otherwise but I'm willing to write off that year due to injuries, etc. That said, hopefully it was a big learning year for Doug and that he can use it as a spring board to future success. The one thing I remember about Doug last year was that his shot was lousy and I hope that had to do with the knee or confidence because if he can't do that, he has no chance. That said, he had a pretty darn good history of being a good shooter. I'm glad he's getting the experience now and he is a very nifty finisher around the basket (you can tell he was well coached). Would be big to get development out of him and have him look like a good bench player. Not asking him to be a world beater, just turn into a good bench player who can help stretch the court.

Watched the first Dleague game yesterday night (on DVR) and thought Dougie looked good. Efficiently scored. Portis was a beast. Hard to watch though cause some of those guys went all chuck fest, still we played against a very good squad and looked good. Portis went mano e mano with Towns. Was wondering who that Felicio character was, he looked like a pretty good guy. I got to say though, I like Payne. Dude just looks like a nasty guy on the court.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Jul 12, 2015 -> 03:27 PM) With this coming on the heels of last year's Cutler fiasco, Buffalo has to let him go. Probably have to wait until the full story comes out. We've heard everything from one person's side but it sounds bad. If he was socking a kid and knocked them to the ground unprovoked or just because they were using some public chairs, well then he gone. Nothing good happens at 3 AM. No idea why I've decided to give the benefit of the doubt. Maybe because it just sounds like way too stupid of a thing to do. Probably means he did it. Dumbass.

US sucked ass though this half. Might have been slightly better then Haiti but they are playing terrible. Awful passing, inability to generate shots and get ball up to strikers.

Lol @ FS1 mic picking that up. f*** you, you piece of s***. Unless I missed it, don't understand why FS1 didn't put up a good review of that offsides which negated the goal.

How good would Deron look at 2yr 10M. All that said, I am sure he isn't signing that deal with the Bulls.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 02:18 PM) The real trick is to find up-the-middle playing time for all three, in addition to a roster spot...which would kinda involve removing our current starting SS. I'm okay with that, but you could also just give a little more rest to the SS and still get plenty of at bats with the bulk of them coming from 2B and 3B. You could at worse get everyone in play 2/3rd's of the time and with some rest to Alexei increase those odds. Micah is getting the bulk of those reps though but again.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 01:18 PM) Every time you wonder why Sanchez is on the roster, he makes a play that Micah Johnson can only dream about. I've said it for a while but while I'm high on Johnson, I am not demoting Sanchez. I think the combo of Johnson / Sanchez / Saladino should get lots of at bats and reps this year to see what we have and who could stick and where.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) Yeah, but only 2 of those games were this season. Woulda been nice to give him a week there just to get the footing down. His upside is as a utility player. He'll have to grow. If he can't develop and make it because a shortstop is playing a few games in an uncomfortable position, well he'll never make it. As a SS, this should be easy. Are their some things he'll have to learn and refine, absolutely. We also have no knowledge of where he took his infield in the minors as he might have gotten other opportunities vs. pure game opportunities to work on fielding their. Sox have another guy in AAA who they want to get as much reps at 3B in case somehow he learns how to hit so you aren't going to just turn over those reps to a guy whose upside is that of a utility player (not that I even like Davidson either).

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 01:01 PM) f*** Brady I was right...he's better, way better

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 02:05 PM) yeah jimmy butler resigned for 5 yrs and all i was saying, i would have traded butler. but the other problem was getting rid of rose. i hope i am wrong, but i don't have confidence in the bulls while rose is on the team. So you'd have got rid of Butler and Rose and just made the Bulls suck instead (see my post above). That would have put them back into the early post Jordan era and would have been awful. You don't break up a consensus top 2 team in the East and you certainly don't just assume the Cavs are going to win every title from here on out. That is foolish. You want to just put yourself with the long list of teams who suck and are tanking cause they think it is easy to do? The flipping Lakers of all people can't even sign major free agent contracts, Knicks have the same issue. You need to have good players and and transcendental generational players rarely fall in your laps so to tank and hope you get the top pick in a class where a Lebron / AD / Duncan type talent is their is just a hopeless / loserless proposition.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) the bulls are entrench with Rose and his contract. other than that, i would really trade Butler to the lakers for what they would be willing to part with. lakers really like butler. i wonder if rose is really unmovable??? What are you talking about. Butler isn't available. He just signed a mega contract (which will be a value contract if he plays similar to he did last year) and will only become more of a value going forward. And what do they Lakers have to offer? Their 1st round pick next year is Philly's (unless Lakers pick in top 3 and if they had Butler they wouldn't) and them offering Randle and Russell wouldn't be near enough for the Bulls to trade Butler (not that they even could at this point anyway). I find all of this talk about blowing up a team that is widely regarded as the 2nd best in the East complete and utter crap. You don't blow up teams that are knocking right on the door of championships, you try to improve them, and sometimes that improvement comes from within (or other teams getting worse). If people followed a lot of the logic applied here, the Bulls would have never won 1 championship, let alone six. Afterall, it took Jordan until his 7th season to win his first title. If you all ran the team, we'd just spend all the time trading away players and we'd consistently be as crappy as Philly. The Lakers (Shaq / Kobe) probably wouldn't have won any titles either, as it took quite a few years until Shaq / Kobe won their titles too. Took Jordan and the Admiral to retire until the Lakers finally got their titles. Reality is most teams take some time to win titles with few exceptions (albeit the recent exception was Boston and Miami through super FA moves / super trades). Even then it took at least a year. Cavs might enter that same realm. Warriors were not built that way and took time (Steph was in his 6th NBA season with Klay being in his 4th season). In fact, if you throw out injury years, the Bulls two best players will kind of be in similar positions from that perspective (Rose / Butler).

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 12:54 PM) Mirotic would definitely have to be involved. I think in a potential 3 team deal where the Bulls say give up 2 future firsts for a good player on a rebuilding team to then give to Sacramento, it maybe becomes workable. If they wanted to just start over yet save face, you could see where Noah, Dougie, future picks and snell would potentially be intriguing. However, given what they wanted from Denver...that is a pipe dream.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) Isn't it about what they are paying Keppinger to play in a beer league? Avi has his warts, but there is potential, and they guy seems willing to give a big effort. He isn't much of a problem right now or the next couple of years. I'd say the issue would be if we were pegging him to be our clean-up hitter 2 years from now (or even next year) and he is coming off of consistent negative production seasons (factoring in defense, etc) then you probably have an issue in the sense that you can't compete. That said, as long as you are fair in your evaluation of Avi, his actual salary isn't in any way shape or form going to put you back or prevent you from adding to the club. However, his success would be better cause it gives you a cost controlled guy and one less spot you have to address. As I've long said, I wouldn't bet against Avi's bat, I just don't like his bat in relation to his D, but I'd also point out that he's still extremely young and to be frank, given his tools, there is no reason he should be this bad of a defender.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 11:21 AM) Money-wise the $4.5 million isn't crippling I agree, but it's enough that it's getting in the way. That'd also be an awful lot of money to pay him if he's just a backup. By 2017, we're talking what, $7-8 million, probably more with revenue growth? I'd have to imagine he's non-tendered if he's basically this same player at that point. I'm certainly not paying him 7-8M for his current production. If I had to pay him 4.5M next year and thought I still saw something, I'd probably do it, but 7-8M, no. Lets remember that $4M is what we paid Emil for. Again, that is not the type of money that should get in the way of contending / not-contending. It is the big time contracts that blow up in your face (as well as bad player development, etc) which get in your way. Beck's is the type of guy getting $2M.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 11:18 AM) The 2m in 2016 is not a big deal, it's the "if he remains this same player he can 100% completely sabotage people's plans for how this team competes next year". If you're like me and think this franchise is a mess you don't care about that, you play him and see if maybe something turns out well. But, if you're like the people who argue "we just need 1 or 2 more pieces" like some in this thread...if he remains this player filling the 3b and SS holes will not be enough. In 2017 the money actually starts becoming a big deal. That's a lot to pay a guy if his track record is a below-replacement player. I'm more concerned about his production (and am 100% content on letting him play out the year with lot of at bats...at that point, you need to evaluate the full body of work and tools and think about what makes sense for next year...do you peg him as a starter or do you peg him as a quality back-up with upside or are you better off moving him for another piece in a change of scenery move). The $2M and $4.5M are in no way financially crippling and aren't even guaranteed so if club found other options you could cut release with minimal risk. I also don't see any scenario where Garcia is crippling to the franchise in the next 2 years to the contention plans. Maybe if you can only contend if he turns into Mike Trout, then sure, but as long as you plan accordingly, you aren't talking about having to put a guy on the bench whose making $15M/yr with a long term contract.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 10:33 AM) i am not disputing the logic. i am trying to think that the pen would become more important in the playoff. that is why a great pen would help out much more, esp when the team goes on the short rotation. i will still keep Rodon in the starting rotation. no team will play minimum games in the playoff. The importance of the pen becomes on the closer, set-up guy, and 7th inning guy. You shorten your pen to 4 really good guys and with 3-4 really good starters, including one of the 3-4 best in the game, and your odds are strong. Much different story. You could have a mediocre bullpen because your secondary pieces are bad vs. a pen where the primary pieces are bad. Defense in the post-season also becomes more important due to fewer runs typically being scored in post-season (better pitching staffs push down run production, typically, not to mention fact that you don't face teams #5 starters and the early inning guys in the pen).

QUOTE (Mike F. @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 09:49 AM) Which is exactly why Beckham and Bonifacio were on the team to begin with. I presume Beck's stays around (not that he deserves it per say but he does) and that Bon will be the odd man out. Both have stunk.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 09:50 AM) i think i would disagree here. if the team shorten the rotation, i would think you will need kickarse pen to take that extra work, or the important workload. Shorten the rotation. You pull Danks out of the rotation and you have aces and extra off days, so you can pitch your top guys in your pen more while having your best starters who in theory can also go deeper. In the playoffs, depth in the pen and rotation becomes far less significant. In fact, depending on rest, you might even have Rodon working out of the pen at times.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 09:58 AM) To me it would tell me that high velocity off of the bat = line drives. For that I'd rather look at LD%'s.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 10:02 AM) you got a very good point. thanks Rose and Butler's issues, imo, will be solved with time. They both want to win and that is a good thing and while Butler is kind of like Kobe in some ways (from a work ethic perspective), he isn't near as hard headed and well, Rose, isn't Shaq in the sense that Shaq was so anti Kobe (i.e., totally lazy) that the two had just an impossible time dealing with each other. One could say Rose is soft but lazy or not hard working, no way.