Chisoxfn

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 18, 2015 -> 10:51 AM) And neither will Derrick Rose. Agree on both parts, but the two of them with other good players, most certainly can, imo.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 18, 2015 -> 10:34 AM) Okay, well I promised lameness. I barely even remember the story and never thought much of it until now since I didn't know there's a potential Rose/Butler rift until reading this thread. After a recent game, both ended up going to RPM Steak. They were in a VIP area and the pretty much the only people around, iirc it was the upstairs area (never been there so not even sure if there is one). Rose was with a big group, his family and entourage and whoever. Butler was there with his agent and business partner to discuss some things. Basically, I guess it was extremely awkward and the two refused to acknowledge that the other was having dinner in the same room as one another. It became a game of who would go over to who at the egging on of Butler's agent, but Jimmy refused to in the end. I think the other people around just expected them to be bffs or whatever. There's more to the story and I'm not telling it right, but yeah its lame nonetheless. There's your nba tmz report for the day. You know...I've done that before, where I see someone I'm friends with but don't want to interrupt what they have going or maybe know that I have something important going and want to focus on that (say a business lunch). Not saying it is the case, but if I'm picking a player to build the franchise around, it is Butler, not Rose.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ May 15, 2015 -> 09:57 AM) No one will take Jo at this point, which is sad seeing what happened to him. If they can clear Taj and sign Marc, that's the best case scenario. Start Pau and Marc, Jo and Niko off the bench. Niko gets the Taj treatment until Pau retires. Jo is an expiring contract and would still be a guy people would trade for. How much we get would be less then in years past but no way someone wouldn't take him. I am not very down on Taj, but his ankles are definitely a concern.

On a sidenote, I want to say that I would still welcome Thibs back, but it would only be if the front office and Thibs could come to an agreement and get on the same page. If they can't, then someone needs to go and it clearly isn't going to be GarPax so at that point Thibs needs to go. Players can't keep dealing with this sort of stuff. Reality is after losing like this, Thibs and Front office won't come to terms.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 15, 2015 -> 09:53 AM) "Pau, talk to Marc. Tell him about the opera" I love all three of those guys and they would be great fits. However, If I'm giving the money, I'm probably giving it to Love. Make Cleveland weaker and get the guy that is 26 years old vs. two guys who are on the other side of 30.

QUOTE (scs787 @ May 15, 2015 -> 09:53 AM) With Butler set to get a max contract more than likely, wouldn't that put them over the tax threshold thus eliminating the MLE? Or can they sign their MLE then Butler? Wes Matthews would be pretty sweet if he decides he wants to take the MLE as a "Prove it" deal coming off an injury. I think even after signing Butler to the max deal, they will be below the tax threshold.

Evidently, if the Bulls were able to time things right with Jimmy Butler's max deal, they would be able to move Taj / Noah and be in a position to offer max money to one of Aldridge / Gasol / Love.

QUOTE (scs787 @ May 15, 2015 -> 09:24 AM) What can they realistically do? Hearing a lot of build around Rose, Niko, and Butler talk. Assuming Butler gets his max contract, I believe that's 14M, so 39M between those 3 guys. The cap is gonna be at 67m. The following year the cap is set to jump up 20M. Do back loaded contracts happen in the NBA? Who are people looking at this off season? Who are you lookin to dump? This was a championship caliber team if healthy. It didn't play like one though late and obviously we missed Pau during the season. The problem is "if healthy" becomes a pretty big caveat given some of the long-term health issues some of these guys have sustained. To me the biggest thing this team was missing was a true point guard. Aaron Brooks is hot garbage (as anything other then a guy you bring in when you need someone to jack up shots and see if he is hot...when he isn't on fire, he is absolutely worthless) and clearly Hinrich is past his prime. Rose you are stuck with and you have to hope that this postseason gave him confidence (even though he finished week) in his knee and he'll finally have an off-season where he can think about basketball and making improvements, which should be huge. Niko will get better and the team will have MLE money to add a quality player which should make us better.

I like poaching two guys from winning organizations. Hopefully these guys were key parts to that in Bmore and Denver, respectively.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 14, 2015 -> 10:18 PM) This is NOT a championship roster. Thibs deserves his fair share of the blame but this roster can't win a championship. Changes need to be made. Brooks +/- in the postseason had to be absurdly bad. That guy was such a liability.

I will say this. Bulls players deserve a lot of the blame too. I was annoyed at our sets after time outs, but more then anything, what bugged me the most was how much the Cavs bench stepped up and how much our bench disappeared (and so did Rose in the 2nd half, etc). I felt that the Cavs shot out of their butts from 3 point in this series and that was probably as much luck as it was anything else. All this said, I hope the Bulls will find a legitimate back-up point guard, probably the biggest need (and this PG would hopefully someone capable of starting in a pinch or when Rose is out). This off-season I expect Rose to take steps forward as with Niko. I'd say Butler will get better too, although I suppose he could be due for some form of regression. Noah should get better (hard to get worse), Taj should get better (similar to Noah, most of that better will be due to health) while I presume Pau will be slightly worse. Dang though, so sad how we weren't able to step up and so frustrating how we had this team on the ropes. Refs sucked but so did the Bulls.

They have played so undisciplined. It is why I am open to a new coach. Maybe Tom's act has grown old. That said, I hope I see a picture of Tom / Pax / Gar smoking cigars and sipping scotch after the Bulls win the title this year!

That should be interesting. Curious how he does. Could he get a more recurring gig or be groomed to come back. Maybe him and AJ in the booth together in a few years, haha.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ May 14, 2015 -> 10:45 AM) I really hope this doesn't hurt Micah's psyche. I don't think he is that type of guy or player but we will see. Let's hope he does well at AAA and is back up at some point If this impacts his psyche, then he wouldn't be good enough to succeed in the majors anyway. More mentally difficult than any other sport.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 14, 2015 -> 10:47 AM) it's a shame that no one in the white sox front office has access to the stats from Birmingham and Charlotte to be able to judge such things. I am glad the front office isn't purely working off the stats and is also using their eyes.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 14, 2015 -> 10:35 AM) His approach has been good, but the results haven't been good enough to overcome how poor his defense has been. I think it's a great move, as Johnson will hopefully go down to AAA and get his timing at the plate ironed out. I think this is more about him working on footwork, making advances on the defensive end. Him working on his bat is nice, but if his defense wasn't historically bad (by advanced metrics), we wouldn't be making this move.

Very surprised at this. I thought we were going to be more patient with Johnson. Hopefully Johnson is able to take what he learned, work hard at it in the minors and then come up for good the next time. He has a bright future and he shouldn't have his head down. I hope Sanchez comes up and keeps hitting and does some good things. Would be nice to have a couple young players to be excited for (as I am still excited and high on Micah) but if Sanchez can play some good defense and hit solidly, he'll be a nice guy to have and an upgrade on the current roster (even though I think Micah's upside is higher).

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ May 12, 2015 -> 04:48 PM) Hey, great speech, now welcome back to the point I was trying to make. Let's try some sustained winning by this organization for a change and see if that doesn't help cure what ails us. We haven't seen it in our lifetimes, of course, but I believe it can and it will. The "reality" is our fan base responds remarkably well to winning. Just look at how that one year of real winning we had in '05 brought a waiting list for season tickets the following year, and almost three million fans through the turnstiles to boot. Nothing fickle or compromising about that. And I can only imagine what the attendance would have been like during the next three or four years subsequent had the team gone on a run and continued to win the division, like the Indians, Tigers, and Twins have somehow managed to do since the Central came into being. You start winning at that clip and then all of a sudden the park is routinely inhabited by 2.8, 2.9 million fans, just like in '06. And then all of these superficial arguments about hands being tied behind the back and lack of resources and irrelevantly comparing us to the Cubs go away. That mindset coming up with those excuses is completely borne of this lifelong lack of a winning culture of which I speak. Simply put - I want reality to be about more winning. Period. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming. Look at the Angels. Consistently 2nd fiddle in the LA / OC market until they won the world series...they followed that up with multiple division titles and have been consistent contenders for the past decade. Payroll went through the roof and attendance was extremely strong. Sox could have been similar but they couldn't consistently make the playoffs (they consistently contended but fell short too often vs. building some serious momentum).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 03:16 PM) The thing that puts us in bad shape is being a losing team this season because there's no money left to upgrade in free agency unless we downgrade somewhere else, and its possible that with erosion of ticket sales after being a losing team again this year the shape could be even worse. That state would leave trades as the only option to upgrade. The answer to that is to stop putting together losing teams, but alas. I am not that worried. This is a team that should get better, not worse. Are they ready for mainstream now, no. Do they need certain guys on current roster to step up, yes, but they also still have pieces in the farm and that will be an integral part to where they end up. This doomsay talk is just crazy this early in the season, that is all I am saying. If the Sox wanted to they could likely move Shark for some top prospects and if Alexei gets going they should be able to get something valuable for him. I am sure if they wanted to, Robertson could go somewhere (I don't think they would move him). If we think Eaton is as bad as he played and Sale is as bad as he played and Shark is as bad as he played, then sure. Eaton has shorter track record so he could be, but I don't think Shark / Sale / Q are going to stink all year when they have proven to be above average (and in Sale / Q's case extremely above avg big league players). Our front 3 pitchers have been lousy and we are just a bit out of the wild card. They will pitch better and probably get in a run where they are all consistently pitching better (to get back in line with their historical norms) and at that point we are talking about what should be an extended winning streak. My concerns are whether we can win pitch over the D, deal with the bad starts from danks / Noesi (maybe Rodon helps with that, but he'll have his issues too but hopefully its more pluses then N).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:58 PM) As Bulls fans, it is a bit hypocritical complaining about LeBron's calls vs. what MJ used to get, but this one call last night really bothered me because they were watching in over and over and came to the conclusion they did. Joey Crawford and the 2 dopes with him should be suspended for the rest of the playoffs for that call after a review last night. Giving a T the next day is nothing. Giving Cleveland 2 shots and the ball when it was their guy that was at fault should be a fireable offense. I could understand it if there was no replay, but the decision made after watching it over and over makes the NBA look bad IMO. That is what I found so laughable. They reviewed the freaking play and messed it up even more (ejecting Taj, etc). It was a total joke.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 03:05 PM) That's not what does it. Abreu goes up $3 million next year. Robertson goes up $1 mil. Melky goes up $1 mil. Sale goes up $3 mil. Quintana goes up $2 mil. Eaton goes up $2 mil. Duke goes up $500k. Bonifacio either goes up $1 mil or has a $1 mil buyout. Then throw in a good number of arbitration guys like Jennings, Garcia, etc. Add all those together and "Just to stay right where we are with no Samardzija" the payroll goes up substantially from the $117 million starting point this year. The White Sox break-even point right now is probably around $120 million. That's consistent with what they've spent this year and its consistent with the Forbes numbers. They're on the book for more than that next year if Alexei is still around. Hence, revenue MUST grow to keep pace with what we've already committed to spend, and that's assuming Samardzija walks. They have already committed to spend a number greater than $115M. And in general, payrolls go up, so yes, White Sox payroll will trend up a bit next year, but so will vast majority of other teams. Average payroll increased 8.2% between 13 & 14. I don't think anyone will look at the Sox and say wow they are in bad shape (from a payroll perspective). I would have said that a few years ago, but not today. We could say that a year from now or two years from now (depending on what various guys do, but that isn't the case today). I also think by seasons end we won't be saying that (as I still think this team contends...doesn't win, but contends). Its defense is so atrocious though.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 02:47 PM) Ramirez coming off the books this year when he's only owed $10 mil next year would seem like a pretty silly move to me unless he keeps being this bad of a hitter all year. If Ramirez comes off the books and Samardzija leaves, then their fixed payroll is basically equal to (within error of cutting guys like Flowers loose) their opening day payroll in 2015 without a single addition. If they pick up Alexei's deal and make no other moves, their payroll will grow by >$10 million next season regardless of whether they finish this season in the playoffs or win 75 games again. If the White Sox go into next year with the same starting 9, including Gillaspie and Flowers as arb guys, without filling any of their holes and with Samardzija gone, seemingly a weaker roster or at best a lateral one (Rodon replaces Samardzija and player x takes the 5th starter spot) their payroll grows by 10% or so. That's why I call this a mess. They're on pace to have an increase of about 2000 in ticket sales this year over last as of now, but they've already spent more than that next year unless they trade someone away. They need to actually win games and be competitive just to support what is already on the books. Otherwise, they're going to need to trade someone away to stay in the black. The payroll is 15th in baseball this year. If you took Shark and Ramirez off the books (which you could do pretty easily, that would move the current 2015 payroll down 18M. That would put them squarely with the Braves (23rd highest payroll in baseball). Every team will have some form of arb hits, etc, so payrolls will move anyway. Rodon replacing Shark and the Sox using Montas or Beck or someone else (or inserting top prospect acquired for Shark) does not increase the payroll by 10%. Again this is all hypothetical anyway but the Sox in no way shape or form, currently are in payroll hell. Not when you look at the macro major league environment. And with those MLB tv revenues in place and the various contracts getting handed on tv deals, I'm not worried about the Sox ability to field a payroll in the 115M range. I just flat out am not concerned about that. They may not want to, but they can do that and then some and should be able to. Local TV deals alone (based upon new terms) could practically drive a $100M payroll alone.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 11:01 AM) No, but letting Lester walk, trading Samardzija for zero established players, and trading away one of the best 3b in the game are very much rebuilding moves. If we traded away Quintana, let Sale walk, and traded away Abreu...I don't think we'd care if we brought in LaRoche to replace him, we'd still call that rebuilding. They aren't all that indifferent from moves the A's have made over their history (including during seasons where they plan to contend the following year).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 10:21 AM) If anyone would take Danks they'd have moved him by now. Shark...letting him go doesn't fix the payroll mess they created since he's not under contract, and with the way he's pitching right now just settling for the crappy draft pick is starting to seem like better than what we'll be able to get in trade. Ramirez...yes we could possibly move him so I'm hoping he picks it up with the bats more in the next month, and that does help the payroll problem a lot...but then we have the delightful middle infield of Tim Anderson as a rookie who could be in AAA and Micah Johnson as a rushed sophomore next year, which is pretty **** far from a competitive infield. What payroll mess did we create? LaRoche is fine and fairly paid (I am going to with long history of him having slow starts and then doing very good). Melky, well, we will see, but I certainly wouldn't jump to that conclusion based upon 30 games. I don't think the Sox have a payroll mess, other then Danks who they are stuck with (Ramirez / Shark / etc come off the books this year so nothing going there).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:44 PM) Presumably if they reviewed it to add the Tech for the other guy then Taj did not get suspended for game 6 in that review and the review is completed. They probably reviewed and realized Taj should have never been ejected in the first place. Every year I enjoy the NBA playoffs but think to myself how much more I'd enjoy them if it weren't for the refs (and this isn't just in Bulls games). I do think NBA refereeing is the hardest of any sport but I also think the refs are the absolute worst in professional sports and playoff basketball gets refed even worse.