Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 07:39 PM) Hilarious that people think a 1-year qualifying offer is even a thing. Lil confused because team offered him both a 1 year qualifying and a full max offer. No player has every taken the one year qualifying over a full max offer. Maybe Butler is the first, we shall see. Yes, Ben Gordon and Greg Monroe turned down big deals to sign the qualifying offer, but they didn't turn down max deals.

So I read that the difference in income Jimmy could get if he signed the 1 year QO and then signed a 4 year offer elsewhere (unrestricted) in 2016 is basically $8M vs. the Bulls current 5 year max offer (same 5 year periods). If that is the case, vs the potential amount loss if he got hurt this year (now clearly he could get himself an insurance contract to ensure he's taken care of with injury, but I don't know that it is worth $8M in total over a 5 yr span. So with that in mind, I would think it would be hard for any agent to recommend he takes that 1 year qualifying offer vs. what is currently on the table. Now the potential changes if he were to sign a 3 year guaranteed deal but even then, I really am curious if a team will ultimately give him an offer sheet. If they do, they have to know the Bulls will match under all scenarios (anything we match will be cheaper then what we already have offered him) so all they are going to do is tie up their cap space for 3 days. Having gone through the scenarios and if Butler follows logic, I don't see him getting that 3 year term sheet and thus I see him taking our 5 year deal. His agents and the Bulls are going to play hardball because I'm sure he's going to do whatever he can to try and gain leverage to get exit clauses in their so he can go back and earn more money when CBA extends.

Dunleavy indicates that he wants to come back to Bulls and also says any rift between Rose / Butler is chatter. Goes on to say he expects Butler to be back based upon conversations he has had w/Jimmy. Does indicate he is pushing for a pay raise from what he made this past year, which I am fine with. MDJ is a solid player to have and giving him a bit more juts means a bit more cash for JR to spend, doesn't block any moves.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 03:09 PM) Yeah it seems that way. But how is having someone on the team that doesn't want to be there good for the team? I know he will be fighting for another contract if that is what happens but doesn't mean he will play good team ball. Butler is by far my favorite on my team and I really hope everything we heard from other people isn't true and he truly wants to be here and he will sign a contract for 3+ years Jimmy just doesn't seem like that kind of guy. I think he wants to be the face of a franchise but the dude has done nothing but put in the work and he deserves to get paid a lot of money and I hope and expect him to continue to put in the work and get better. I haven't heard one thing from him that bothers me through this process. I can't believe with his personality he isn't getting more marketing deals. I probably think that is what bothers him, with Rose on the Bulls, he probably feels his marketing ops have been limited but as his personality comes out and he signs this deal, more ops are going to pop up. He's so much more entertaining and marketable then Rose (personality and public speaking skills are superior).

Bulls supposedly have Belinelli and Stuckey on their lists of FA targets. Both would be real nice fits. I am curious if they'll look at Ben Gordon as a vet min bench guy.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 02:12 PM) We will get a much better idea of how true all of the rumors are now. If he signs the full deal, the rumors are total BS. If he signs the shorter deal, then we still have to wonder if he wants out, or just a shot at a new max deal in a couple of years. I think the only one that I'd be concerned about if I were a Bulls fan, would be if he took the 1 yr deal (paid roughly 4-5M for one year and then becomes a UFA), because at that point, Jimmy can go wherever he wants. He could still very much think the Bulls are #1 but you'd have to contend with everyone and he could at that point sign a long term deal with an opt out a year in to go through the whole process again. I think most realistic scenario is he'll sign a deal with someone else w/4 years (opt out after 3 years) at whatever the max deal is and then the Bulls will match it and we'll go through this process after 3 years. I presume Bulls won't put an opt-out any sooner then year 3 on any deal they offer him.

On a sidenote, it wasn't that long ago that Butler was in LA for an ESPN appearance (after we had gotten knocked out of the playoffs) and they asked Jimmy about going elsewhere and he said he intended to stay in Chicago and how the Bulls were the one organization who drafted him and saw talent in him and was their from the beginning, etc. Not sure if that was before or after Thibs was fired though.

Bulls officially offer Butler qualifying offer and max qualifying offer. This means we have officially offered Butler a max deal. Could all of the posturing on his side been a way to ensure he actually received the full max offer (presume it was a foregone conclusion but you never know). Would be so awesome if Jimmy just signed the full max qualifying. Either way, Butler either accepts a shorter term deal from a non Bulls team (shortest another team can offer, prior to any opt out clauses is 3 years) or he takes the Bulls max offer or he takes his qualifying offer and plays for peanuts for 1 more year before becoming an unrestricted free agent.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 12:38 PM) I would bet collectively, the 2015 White Sox roster has more postseason experience than the 2005 roster had coming into that season. The rotation alone had plenty of post-season experience (club had made the playoffs in 2000 and still had some guys from that roster, including Garland / Buehrle / Konerko). Then you had AJP / Dye / Carl Everett / Big Hurt (albeit he was hurt) as regular position players. Other pitchers with experience included Jose Contreras, Frederico, El Duque, Luis Vizcaino, and Dustin Hermanson.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 10:07 AM) How? In all seriousness what NBA team is looking at Derrick Rose and wanting a part of that? Unless we get back an equal, or worse, contract, it ain't happening. Rose will be a FA by the time I anticipate Butler will be in his potential walk year (2-3 years from now), so even if you can't trade Rose immediately, he'll be away and you can turn franchise to Butler. And if Rose is healthy next year, Bulls will be able to trade him (if that was what was needed). If he wasn't healthy, it is a moot point because it is Butler's team anyway (since Rose is hurt). All that said, I think both guys will end up pushing each other to be better and I've said this numerous times but I expect Rose to be much better this upcoming year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 09:08 AM) LA is LA. Half of the NBA wants to be there. Yeah and LA is trending upwards. They will have a behemoth of cash and they now have two nice young pieces (Randle / Russell) and another quality 2nd year player in Clarkson. Key being they have a bagillion in cap space after Kobe walks away (and plenty of space now). LA will be serious players in a few years, albeit, some of that is pending the emergence of those young players. Drafting Russel was a major coup cause he'll make everyone better and is probalby the type of guy other "Alpha's" would want to play with.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 09:00 AM) He's only restricted this year though right? So in reality the Bulls can get him next season for sure, but after that it's a bidding war. We can offer him that extra year, but he doesn't have to take it. He could choose to just take a Bulls 1 year offer. If he accepts any other teams deal, then we match and he's with us at least 3 years. Reality is he probably works something out with the Bulls for a 4 or 5 year deal with an opt out in 2 years but I don't know if the Bulls are going to play hard ball and see if he really waits and signs for super cheap. If he did sign super cheap this year, might change things as Bulls could find a way to get cap space and be major players and then hope to sign someone else and then you can just pay massive tax and use the bird rights on Jimmy Buckets after you win the title. PS: If Butler and Rose don't get along, Rose is gone. Find a way but Jimmy is the Alpha on this squad. All that said I hope they can both make amends and would think with Rose's personality they probably could.

Bottom line, with Butler it doesn't matter now. He has no choice but to sign with the Bulls so its all a moot point. We control where he goes and that is a beautiful thing. He might not be happy with Chicago now, but he wants his money and he's going to put in the work and Hoiberg will have his time to show Jimmy why he should stay in Chicago (as will the rest of the front office and the teams performance). All of this nonsense is just talk and speculation. I'll get worried about stuff like this when he is truly a year away. Reality is, the shortest deal he could get is with the Bulls and IIRC, if he signs an offer sheet from someone else, it basically means we have him at least 3 years (and just match that) cause any other teams offer sheet has to contain at least 3 guaranteed years (presuming the Bulls do all the right things in terms of qualifying offers to make and their is no reason they wouldn't).

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 12:54 AM) If you're not going to make the playoffs, might as well aim for the highest pick possible. One of the worst positions that a franchise could operate in professional sports is the middle, you're missing out on the high end talent and you're not competing for a championship. So again, if you’re not going to the playoffs get the highest pick possible. In other sports I'd say yes, in baseball, I disagree. The best organizations consistently win and find talent (both through FA and the Draft) and top draft position has the lowest correlation in baseball then any other sport. This isn't like the NBA where most of the superstars were top picks vs. MLB where lots of superstars aren't top picks. That said, if we are going to be bad and developing, I am okay getting top pick as long our young talent is improving, etc. I am not okay with guys just playing bad. It is more important for pieces to make progress and help us get wins and slowly get better. Baseball is not the sport you go from worst to first very often. Usually it takes time to build and get the pieces put together and ready.

I am pretty much in Matt's camp. Unless someone is going to acquire Ramirez because they are going to give us some form of chip that is worth while, then I think we are best suited to keep him and see if he improves. If he plays the 2nd half of the year like his past, you then have the option on a guy to keep. If he doesn't, he's gone anyway. Unless of course org sees value in giving other guys opportunity (even if they really aren't deserving) and understand that our defense will be far worse (which can hurt young pitchers development as well). I think our upside is you see if its just a bad couple months for Alexei and hope that he gets on a hot streak and all of a sudden at the end of July someone is saying, yep, that is Alexei. We need that guy, he's played the past month like the Alexei of old and now he has some value (obviously not top 100 value...which he probably had this time last year...but to the point where the benefit from trading him is at least worth it vs. just dumping him because). We still need to find a SS next year and Alexei on a cheaper deal (not picking up the option but signing him for less) might be the best option. Seems like the defensive issues are mental vs. physical and it might be those struggles are then carrying to the plate as well.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 09:26 AM) Unfortunately, doing that would have left the white sox such a gaping hole at an important position that making that move would be tantamount to calling 2015 a rebuilding year. In that case it would have made no sense to do things like sign players who received qualifying options. Oops. Depends. Ramirez has significant value so you could have traded him near the deadline and then tried to add someone like Jimmy Rollins. Note, I am not saying Jimmy Rollins is doing all that great, just using an example of him who would have been a fine replacement for ramirez as a temporary stop-gap (if you were trying to contend).

Right now, I think the best thing for the Sox is to give AR a few days off, then see if that helps clear his mind and hopefully you get him playing like he used to. Its really unfortunate cause we would have gotten something pretty nice for him a year ago or even at the deadline, now less likely we get a whole lot for him. Come on AR, hit, hit hit. That also means, if you plan on contending next year and you can't get a lot of value for him (and you don't have anyone you plan on giving those at bats too, you might not be better off moving him and might actually be better off taking his option...presuming front office has confidence in him rebounding). You could also just move him, take what you want, and use it to give both Sanchez and Micah plenty of at bats (see if Sanchez can play SS and how he can hit over course of a full season and get Johnson major league coaching at 2B and also time to continue to develop his bat). If you do that, by the end of the year, we should have a much better idea regarding Sanchez / Johnson's future.

I wanted the point guard. Was stoked Jones was their but looked like everyone thinks pretty highly of Portis so excited to see what he can do. Should have some great guys to learn from.

Wow, Lakers make the right move. Should set-up nicely for them. I still like Randle's upside and now you have a guy who should be playmaking point guard. I think they'll get one of Love / Aldridge / Gasol and then you pair that with Kobe and it is a lot better.

KC indicating this will be the finalized coaching staff. Myers is officially coming back to Chicago. IIRC, Drose really liked Pete. Fred Hoiberg - head coach Jim Boylen - associate head coach Pete Myers - assistant coach Mike Wilhelm - assistant coach Ed Pinckney - assistant coach Charlie Henry - video coordinator

All I know is if I were the Lakers, I'm taking Russell all day. Looks like he has potential to be a superstar. All this said, Okafor is getting bashed despite having a damn good low post game and just fantastic footwork.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 25, 2015 -> 10:25 AM) The easiest way to look at this is "Total U.S. Healthcare spending" because that is a readily-tracked value and it reflects both contributions. The results as of last year continue to say "health care costs growing at a much slower rate than they were prior to passage of the PPACA. Supporting link. Forbes has a writer who has argued there are additional costs in the system here but those costs in the numbers given actually have not gone up at all over the time period he writes, which would lower that growth rate even more. Basically, whatever portions you count...year over year cost growth is at the lowest level in decades. Is that number reflective of what the consumer is paying vs. costs from provider. Relevant data point but difference between what impacts the everyday people (albeit interrelated since the insurance companies aren't in the business of eating costs) and what impacts potential bottom line of insurance companies.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 25, 2015 -> 10:13 AM) Exactly. We developed him effectively up to the AAA level and then a better organization was able to have him take bigger steps on offense. I don't know if I can give the A's credit to help him take bigger steps on offense. He spent all of an off-season with the A's. I think in this case, the credit belongs to Semien (Sox should also get credit cause he was a generally good find and is a very solid baseball player). He's in way over his head at SS though.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 25, 2015 -> 08:43 AM) I wish Obama would quit lying how everyone is saving money because of Obamacare he said it again today. I do not know anyone who's deductible that is not thousands of dollars more. Higher premiums and less coverage is all Obamacare has done to the working class. Only people happy about this is the Medicaid crowd. I will be the first person to tell anyone about how my costs have gone up across the board (not just higher premiums but less coverage along with those higher premiums). And before Balta answers, in my exact situation it has nothing with my employer covering less. They cover the same % split and haven't changed that during this window. However, the real comparison would be on how the costs were increasing pre Obama Care vs. Post Obamacare and you have to look at it from multiple perspectives...not just premium costs but total out of pocket costs (as those would be reflective of potential lower benefits that you are receiving). I am sure the data is out there but as a stat / analytic guy (I live in that world pretty much all day), the data I've typically seen around just has a lot of holes in the assumptions, etc, that I question the overall validity. By the way, despite being a republican, I do think their were certain things about Obamacare that were absolutely fantastic and necessary. Healthcare is something everyone should have the right to have and people shouldn't not be able to get healthcare because of past health issues (many of which were completely and utterly out of their control).

If you were going to trade for Guerrero, you'd have to see if you could work an agreement where he is compensated or you tear up that contract and negotiate a new deal. Otherwise, you don't make the move. I would be totally on board to get Alex if we knew we could have him under our control for a number of years.