Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:47 PM) Couple decent swings this AB for Dunn, just out in front on the slow stuff. Great, he can get around on an 87MPH fastball. I still haven't seen him get around on decent fastballs and he's having a hell of time hitting anything off-speed. And the breaking ball he whiffed on in this AB was up in the zone (and a little in) but it didn't have much movement. Hard to hit though when you have that much head movement during your swing.

A slow breaking balla nd he's out.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:41 PM) This is so dumb. People are falling all over themselves to extrapolate 1/8th of a contract to make Dunn one of the biggest busts of all time. Or less than 1/2 of a season to say that Dunn is having the worst season ever for a DH or some other horses***. Look, he really sucks right now. Like really, really bad. But at least let him fail for the full season before evaluating his worth over an entire season. It is pretty difficult to do what Dunn has done over this amount of AB's. This isn't a small sample size. This is almost a full half-season's worth of at bats. Add in the 2nd half of last year (which was bad) and that is a full season of being below-average. Add in the fact that he's not exactly young and I think you have plenty of reasons to call him a big bust. Could that change a year from now, absolutely, but I'm not about to give him the benefit of the doubt. I see a guy with a long swing and slow bat. That isn't exactly a recipe for success.

QUOTE (elgonzo4sox @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) Not even the Dodgers, if MLB takes full control? When they controlled the Rangers last year they spent money to build a postseason team. Maybe Bud Selig will do his buddy Jerry a favor and take Dunn off his hands... They didn't spend much. They just had to pay Lee for the remainder of his contract. Picking up Dunn would mean that they were picking up 3 more years of that contract. Additionally, they have James Loney at 1B and unless they planned on moving Loney back to the OF or were trading Loney, there is no spot for Dunn. Not that Loney is very good.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:38 PM) I happen to love watching Paulie play defense, too. He might have bailed out Alexei in that extra inning game on Friday. Wow, Quentin was lucky to make contact on that slow curve. Livan is pretty much a knuckle-baller without a knuckler, haha.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 11:04 AM) I agree. I have been really disappointed this year by his plate discipline and lack of power, but he has one his best games of the year and then gets the bench. Quite an incentive to perform well. His defense has been great and his bat continues to improve. Seems to be like he's been about exactly as advertised. And he should grow and as he grows he'll learn to drive a bit more. But he never had a ton of power and has never shown ridiculous patience. The beauty is he has always shown an ability to adjust and he's done that at the major league level. He will never be a regular all star at 3B though because he dosen't possess the overall power ability to do so.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) Are you talking about Dunn? Because if you are, how can you say this when the season isn't even over? I think somewhere I said if he keeps this up. But you are correct, there is still a half season for him to make some noise.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:32 PM) Problem is, Dunn usually takes full off-season away from baseball. I guarantee he'll be making some sort of change to his off-season this year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:28 PM) Assuming that a player must be the worst of the worst because you don't know how to look for data is either hyperbole, laziness, or naivete. He's been bad. Plain bad. People have been worse. Lots of people have been worse. Brandon Wood's epic .382 OPS last year was a pretty good example. He might well be one of the worst ever to put up these numbers while being paid this kind of money. That narrows the list down considerably. For the money, he's clearly one of the biggest busts of all times (in one season). But Jamie Navarro was terrible for the Sox. Mike Hampton was clearly a bust as well. I will say this, when you add in the fact that he is a DH, this has to be the worse season out of any DH (to date) who gets paid this amount of money (injuries aside). And when I say this amount of money, I'm saying it relative to what the avearge payroll was during any one given season.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:26 PM) The lack of power displayed by this team in the past two days has been extremely disturbing. Nothing, outside of injuries, can truly be that disturbing over a 2 day span.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) What do you think of this thought: Dunn is type of guy who if he just stinks the rest of this year and next year, he might just walk away from baseball and retire? Other than Dunn coming out of this and playing out his contract at least close to his career numbers (with a small decline for age each year), that would probably be the best thing that could possibly happen to the Sox. But how often does that happen. I'm sure he'd still want to get his money. I really hope he figures this s*** out, but the longer you are like this, the more mentally you get f***ed up and then the only thing that can help is just a full off-season away from baseball. Kind of like what happened with Rios 2 years ago or Swisher a couple years back. Or even Konerko back in the early 2000's when he had that disasterous season.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:17 PM) wOBA actually weighs singles more than walks. In comparison, OPS says single = walk. So take it for what it's worth I guess. Ya, I was speaking more to your standard number. But I also hold things to a principle which state that guys that hit that s***ty are going to hit real bad against good pitchers and tend to get most of there offense against bad pitchers. Which than means they are going to be pretty worthless late in games and in key-situations. That is because typically in those situations you have specialized set-up men in the games that are typically pretty decent (assuming it is a close game). In short, I really don't like Dunn and have very little hope of him amounting to anything. I didn't like him at his prime, but I at least figured he'd hit 30 HR's with a crappy average and good OBP and I could have lived with that.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:14 PM) Only the pre-swing stuff. He's either wiggling the bat when he's getting read to swing or having it rest on his shoulder. That's the only alteration I've seen him make. The big thing is he's staying on top of things. Keepg the elbow/hands higher. Guy has such quick hands. Unfortunately his swing is very hit or miss because there is so much pre-swing movement. Much like Beckham's swing. Rios has much quicker hands than Becks though.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:12 PM) One's horrid, the other, especially this year, is actually very acceptable. I believe a .342 wOBA is something like 10% above league average this season. I'm not saying it's okay for Dunn to put up a .342 wOBA, but I'd definitely trade that for what he's done at home so far. And I will always say that certainstats can be highly over-rated. A walk isnt' the same as a hit. It just isn't. And some of those stats pretty much rate a walk as a pure equivalent to a hit. In close games, a walk doesn't knock in the winning run. When you aer hitting .217, you are worthless, unless pretty much every one of your hit is a HR.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:08 PM) It's obvious home games are taking a huge toll on Dunn's mind. He's hitting .131 at home. He's actually hitting .217 on the road with a .370 OBP and a .342 wOBA. The pressure's getting to him. If you want him to hit, you don't boo him. For once, I'll have to go with the company line. Both are incredibly unacceptable to me.

That was a bad call by the ump. Either he leaned into it or it hit the back. Heck, the pitch was practically a strike.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 12:04 PM) Rios is just as bad as dunn one K's and walks the other K's and pops out on the infield Rios has been hitting it hard by and large the past week or so. Heck, even more than that. His slugging percentage, ops, and average have been on the rise the past couple of weeks. He's also coming off a 3 hit game. I realize its sexy to hate on Rios, but unlike Dunn, he's actually coming around and also plays some good defense.

QUOTE (BigEdWalsh @ Jun 25, 2011 -> 06:29 PM) I totally understand the fans' frustration and anger but I just don't agree with booing "our own". My big thing is when you are hitting under .200 and you have that whole side of the infield, at some point, dont' you just try to beat the shift a bit and do something decent. Heck, anything to give you some sort of confidence.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 11:56 AM) And if the Sox haven't taught you yet how much damage you can do by calling a guy up too early, I'm not sure what else they can do to convince you. The club is doing serious damage to Sale. It sickens me. I hope somehow he can pan out, but I'm very very concerned for the long-term future of both Beckham and Sale. Both had so much potential and neither has really been able to develop. The majors are a very tough place to be and it is very difficult to make decent size adjustments at the big league level. I think both would be best suited from making adjustments down in the minor, seing some success with those adjustments (and thus building confidence) and than seeing time in the majors. Heck with Sale it is more than him learning but just getting him a lot more innings so he can better develop his secondary stuff and better learn to repeat his delivery.

I'm a CPA (well, almost officially, pending paperwork, haha) mothaf***a!!!!!

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jun 24, 2011 -> 12:18 PM) I'll miss your honest posts, but if people here are going to constantly beg you to leave, then leave. Another board will benefit from your knowledge. J4L has a lot of knowledge. Unfortunately the past 6+ months worth of posts have exhibited very little knowledge. And instead are more about him making ignorant comments while plastered in various threads. Sorry, Soxtalk has turned into a place filled with sports radio callers and we are better than that.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jun 24, 2011 -> 11:12 AM) I'm quite a few pages back, and perhaps it has since been answered, but this portion of NSS's post is golden. If Jason and company are going to establish new rules concerning posting there should be clear guidelines detailing what's acceptable and what isn't. More than "hyperbole" or outlandish negativity. Additionally, who exactly is enforcing these rules, just Jason; or all mods? Will each post that is questionable be put up for review? Also, I'm trying to wrap my mind around this concept -- so there's a collection of 'quality' posters out in the nether regions of the internet lurking, and oh boy do they have some valuable insight to provide for fellow Soxtalk members. Yet, when these member log on all they notice is the negativity; and that just makes them sad. They don't appreciate such injustices. So in a silent protest (well, not really, because they made sure to tell the mods/admins of their intentions so everyone will miss them) they leave and now the world will never know what knowledge could have been shared with Soxtalk. Am I the only person who finds it ridiculous someone is allowing another person indirectly to influence whether or not they post here? It isn't just good posters who don't post here. It is good posters who don't post as much. It is the owner of the site who doesn't like what he sees. It is admins and mods not liking what they see. It is so much bigger than that and for those that want to get there panties tied up in a wad over this whole thing, well, than you probably are the problem. Again flash...I'm being general when talking here cause I think you are an asset to the site and while I know you always get worried in areas like this, this mod/admin team and this board has always done a great job catering to the masses and the people. And we have all different sorts of flavors as mods (which is very evident in our boardroom discussions).

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 24, 2011 -> 09:17 AM) Most of the baseball world has done the extensive book report. Nearly any smart site, from Yahoo! to Rotoworld to fangraphs, etc, has written how idiotic it is that Juan Pierre not only continues to start, but also continues to lead off for this roster. The only person who doesn't get it is our manager. Hence J4L and anyone else's frustration with Pierre and this team. If you aren't frustrated, you aren't paying attention! But do we need 1000 threads on it and complete and continuous reiteration of that?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 24, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) Do you really need an extensive, detailed, book report on why JP sucks? I've done my Kalapse impression and thrown numbers out there. And other times I have fun with it. I don't see the big issue here. You guys keep saying I'm missing the point? The board owner was the one that created this thread. How else is somebody like myself supposed to view this? Maybe muzzle or gag were too strong a terms. How about greatly alter? And this what Milk is talking about. I can tell by the tone of your post that you're like really getting mad. "Do what we say or go to the ESPN board." I never said the inmates should run the asylum. View it as the site isn't going to sit around and let you breach and yell and make hyperbolic comments that take down the overall quality of the board. This isn't what this place is for. If you want to handle things in a respectable manner and debate facts and do it without being completely obnoxious than fine. And if you think you have to worry about every post you make, well, quite frankly, your posting style won't work here.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 24, 2011 -> 07:29 AM) I thought so too. Look the idea is that it has gotten bad here. When looking at the numbers, Soxtalk's post totals have fallen way off. Looking down the list of people in the top 10/50/100 posters who don't show up anymore is stark. The one thing that is repeated over, and over, and over again by people is that they are sick of the tone here. Its not the arguments, but the way that arguments are made. You couldn't disagree with anything without being shouted down. That has led to a pretty significant migration, to where the biggest group of people left on the board are fairly negative, and seem respond mostly to the negative situations. The reality is that most people want to celebrate and look forward to the positive things about baseball. That is why most people watch it. Well now we are taking Soxtalk back for that silent majority. The whole idea is that the vast majority of people want to have somewhere to go to talk about their team and enjoy it. Why would you you want to go somewhere that made you feel worse than before you got here? It makes no sense to me. Hell it wouldn't have been so bad if it were even kept into a thread or two, but instead of just being game threads, like it started out years ago, it spilled into the other threads. The crap just spread like a virus throughout the whole board. Even the topics that have nothing to do with the Sox are filled with ridiculous statements of no substance or intelligence. Pick up the game here Soxtalk. You can be upset with the team, and still make intelligent posts. I have seen the names of people who do it a lot. I know the want now is for "specific examples" so that it can be pushed right up to the ledge, and then answered with "well I didn't do exactly that". This is going to be vague, because you can't project exactly what hyperbole isn't an exact science. If that is too vague, well sorry. Any changes in people's posting status's will come from a long discussion amongst mods and admins here. Believe me when I say it will be a process. It isn't going to be Jason, or anyone else, just banning people. Pretty much all of the staff hates doing, but we hate being put in a position to take action on someone even more. And to go onto this. It might be stupid and real simple, but really the whole premise behind this is pretty simple and Mike summed it up greatly above. And if you have to ask for 15 examples so you know exactly how to toe the line, well, quite frankly, clearly your goal is shock value (and I'm not implying that is the case with everyone, but certainly the perception would be that is the case).