Chisoxfn

I should point out Jenks is the one guy that I don't trade unless the other team is offering at least one "special" prospect, ie a high impact potential superstar player.

QUOTE (shipps @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:45 PM) Seriously though,how refreshing would it be for KW to do a complete overhaul and go baby young for the rest of this year? And then make some noise in the off season with a couple signings. The key is you'd have to cut payroll as the club wouldn't be making as much money this year (due to poor performance) as well as next year (due to season ticket holders that cut and run) but as we've seen, winning teams draw attendance so if he can right the ship quickly (and that shouldn't be tough as right now the Al Central should be winnable for the next couple years...I don't buy this Clevaland s*** and Minny is meh, Detroit has some solid arms but financially is a mess, and KC is rebuilding but financially it will be tough to sustain) our payroll shouldn't suffer too significantly long-term. To me it just flat out makes sense.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) The scary thing about KW having any money to spend this offseason though is that he's sure to overpay for Chone. I realize this, but say even the Sox want to talk to the Angels about acquiring Figgins. Sox offer Konerko and Dotel for Figgins and than sign him to a deal. I think Figgins is past his prime, but in terms of value it changes things up and saves you substantial money (even after Figgins resigns) and the Angels might even do it to get the power into there lineup as well as stablize there horrid pen. I think the Angels could have a fit for one of the Sox hitters, Colon (to plug into the back-end of the rotation) and our relievers (aside from Jenks).

QUOTE (fathom @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:39 PM) If you get anyone to take Konerko's contract off our hands, you get rid of him. He's playing well this year, but in this market, he's severely overpaid. I like your idea of promoting Poreda, and a good spot could be as a lefty set-up man in case Jenks is traded (and Thornton moves to the closing spot). I wonder if a team like the Dodgers could be interested in Dotel or Linebrink, as their set-up men stink. The Dodgers are a team that I think will be buying at the deadline. The Angels will be a team that would be a tremendous fit for Dye or Thome (as DH's). If the Giants stay in things they could be buyers for almost anything and do have a nice crop of prospects. The Phillies have to defend there throne and could need some bullpen help. Mets and Yanks both have the pressure of the new stadium so they will be buyers. Red Sox probably sell a couple guys but might need to buy something as well, but they have such a deep stable of arms and a relatively deep lineup that the only thing I could maybe see them buying would be a bat for the middle of the order (especially with Papi sucking). Cubs and Cards might be buyers and with the Reds in it you might see them buy as well. Bottom line I think the Sox could potentially get some decent players and payroll savings and there should be ample buyers. The tough part is there are a lot of teams that won't want to add payroll plus other good players that might not normally be available will come available due to the economy. Still, June 1st, there will be buyers and I wouldn't be opposed to selling a few guys even sooner if you can find the right market.

I'm pretty stoked about Omogrosso. I don't know if he has the secondary stuff to be a starter, but he's got a big league arm and should be in Chicago this year if they rebuild or retool.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:29 PM) I don't know how they are doing this year, but Baylor is producing some real good talent this year. Baylor has massively collapsed and is a bubble squad. Kansas State is having a very good year though. Big 12 is easily one of the biggest hot-beds, if not the biggest, for future MLB talent though.

This might be a bit too early and I'd be the first to admit injuries have played a large part in this season and I'm not at all saying it would be impossible for the Sox to go out and win the division, afterall, I felt a healthy Sox team might have beaten the Rays and advanced to the World Series. However, this club, as it is currently constructed doesn't do it for me. We have a much worse rotation, a similar pen (which is a good thing), and a much worse lineup. CF/SS/2B/3B are all worse this season as opposed to last season. In addition, Dye is not playing as good as he was last year and Thome currently isn't (although compared to last year this time, Thome had poor numbers than too) as well. Hell, Konerko is pretty much the only go doing a better job and I won't throw Quentin into this mess either because he has had injuries to deal with but he's clearly not done as good of a job. So the lineup is much worse and defensively it is awful and the rotation is significantly worse (even though 3/5th's of it is the same) because two guys are having some growing pains (Danks/Floyd). As far as I'm concerned, this means now is a good time to try something new. It might still be a week or two too early, but we'll know everything we need to know about the Sox within the next 2 weeks, imo. We'll see if they are potentially a contender and if they aren't, by June 1st Kenny needs to have his selling hat on cause it would be time to make some wholesale changes to the current club with the intent of putting the club in a position to contend next season (cause we can't go 4 years without contending, it would be stupid in this economy, unless we want to see a 30M payroll for a long long time). So who are the locks to go: Dye/Thome/Dotel/Colon - Three of the four are on expiring contracts and the other has been an above average reliever with a bit of a high contract, but nothing that would prevent a contending team from taking it on. I'd also be hard pressed for the Sox to receive Type A compensation for any of these players as it would be far to risky to offer Dye or Thome arbitration and in the case of Colon I would be stunned if he'd ever even qualify for Type B compensation so again, not worth it. This means the likely value on the trade would most likely be less than A level prospects. However, it would not be out of the question to get a B level prospect plus something for Dye and Thome and maybe a former big leaguer whose struggled or hasn't turned the corner for a Dotel/Colon all while clearing off a lot of salary. Over 30 million to be precise. Who steps in? Brandon Allen would be an immediate option to step in and replace Thome's AB's to the point that the Sox could gauge the type of prospect that he is and make an decision or at least educated guess as whether he's part of the future plans. In the outfield, its pretty clear that the Sox don't have any bats ready to make an immediate impact, so you'd have to think one of the guys they acquire in a trade would be an outfielder that would step in with Brian Anderson getting the bulk of the time in CF (a last ditch effort of sorts to see if he could make it). Shelby/Gartrell/Danks all wait in the wings with Danks having the most upside, but it would be unrealistic to have much expectations for them to fill into the lineup. The Sox could eventually decide they'll stick with Fields and use Viciedo a bit (as he might prove ready at a later date). In the pen, I'd personally be tempted to bring Poreda up and throw him into the pen. Let Coop work on his secondary stuff with a plan of eventually converting him to the rotation, but letting him get comfortable in Chicago first. This probably wouldn't be the White Sox plan though as they seem adamant about giving him a shot as a starter and that probably means more time in the minors (and I don't blame them if they go that route). The biggest question is probably who steps in for Colon. You could again point to Poreda, but I'd pass on that (see above). Than there is Marquez, currently hurt, Egbert, Broadway and a whole lot of blah names. Again, with Richard already up, Broadway is sadly the best current option (Hudson/Carter are the best starting prospects the org has and they are at least a ways off and I wouldn't project either as being elite prospects as of this date...good ones sure, but lots of time for things to go wrong). But I'd like to think the Sox could find a quality guy to plug in here via the trade as well and of course there is always Jose Contreras as a stop-gap until a prospect is ready (and ideally, Contreras comes up, does decent enough and the Sox ship him out with a bit of cash in a purely salary savings deal). Veteran Locks to Stay: Buehrle is too valuable and you just play it carefully with him. I want to retool, not reload so he stays as he is still a valuable asset the next few years and a face of the franchise. Konerko is a guy I would personally listen to regarding trades and if you were able to get good value, you make a move, but in this market I dont' think teams would be as willing to give up enough to make it worthwhile for the Sox and his stable presence would be worthwhile. Plus, he's a face and you need to keep a few of those to stay cool with the fans. And with Viciedo and Allen both around, it could get really tempting to move Paulie knowing that you plan on an ideal situation of both of them panning out and covering 1B/DH for the next 10 years (and if not, bats like Paulies are easily acquirable, imo). Linebrink I don't think you get a blow you away offer for Scott and you still need guys to get things to your closer. Linebrink should also be valuable for another year or two and will eventually be the type of guy that you should get Type A or at least B compensation for (if all goes well). So I don't see a major reason to move him (a team blows us away, sure, but it won't happen). Toughest Decision - Bobby Jenks Jenks is a big time asset and is easily one of the upper echelon closers in baseball. He's still young so he should be a very viable option during your retooling face and will still give you the ability to close out games. Plus at the current rate he's still cheap so there isn't a major reason to move him. However, he could also be the guy that gets you two A prospects. I think he's the guy that you quietly make available, listen to offers, and if the right offer comes along (maybe 25-30% chance) you make the deal. Say a team in need of a closer or stronger pen calls up and offers there two top prospects (at least one being a potential high impact one) and potentially more, you make that deal and move Thornton into the rotation. The bigger beauty of this is you have Thornton signed to a solid deal and have Poreda able to jump in and learn as Thorty's replacement and potentially our future closer. Oh and in time you'll also open up spots for the Links/Omogrosso's of the world to get there chances. In the off-season you evaluate the parts you like, trade some pieces that don't fit to acquire better fits, and use 30M or so on FA pieces (when all is said and ton, the Sox would still cut payroll, but be able to buy a lot in FA to clean up the pen, find a starter and maybe find an impact bat and leadoff hitter).

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:04 PM) Swisher still has a OPS+ of 137 and his career average is 113, so he's regressing to his average now, but I wouldn't be shocked if he goes back to putting up similar numbers he had before he came to the Sox. It's mind boggling how this team seems to just be sleep walking through every game, except when there's a borderline call at HP then they act like had their first born child taken from them. And he's a garbage player. I don't care what his OPS says. If you hit under .250 you pretty much suck in my book. Sure he'll hit some doubles and can play average defense at multiple positions and draw some walks, but as a whole, he's not a good baseball player. I think he would be a good fit in the NL, but you put a team full of Swishers and they'll be a very very bad f***ing offensive team and thats why OPS + and all that OPS stuff can piss off at times.

Dyson flat out dominated this weekend: RHP Sam Dyson (9 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 13 K)

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 18, 2009 -> 12:58 PM) How many guys leave the White Sox and go on to become significantly better hitters elsewhere? If there was a guy that hit .220 under Walker but .280-.300 under someone else, and it happened more than once or twice, the Walker bashers might have a point. I really don't see any of that yet, although I'm sure Swisher's name will come up, but one of the reasons the Sox got rid of Swisher was his refusal to listen to Walker. His batting coach is his father. And he's hitting something atrocious as his numbers are shooting way back down. I agree with you ont his Dick, however, I also agree something needs to be done as the management did a f***ing horrendous job and right now I see lifeless play and that is un-f***ing-acceptable.

QUOTE (sf_soxfan @ May 18, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Konerko's/Dye's passivity shows in these times. Dye basically walked home on Thome's homer today. No energy indeed. And there's nothing wrong with that as long as you have other people that can provide it. Unfortunately this squad has zero f***ing vocal or emotional leaders and its f***ing pathetic. You thought they learned from 07 but no they didn't. I really miss OC right now, like a whole f***ing lot.

Ya Matt, I knew that, am an idiot though. Big 12 is a much much more elite baseball conference, but Iowa State isn't the reason why, haha. Texas, OU, Oklahoma State, and Missouri would be those reasons. Hell, Kansas is even playing good right now (and will be in the playoffs).

I am absolutely apalled with what is going on right now. Its completely unf***ing acceptable. The lack of emotion is worthless and while I'm not going to say the guys don't care, I'm going to say that it certainly looks as lackluster as possible down there and something needs to be done to change it. Kenny/Ozzie, thats your f***ing job and I as a fan am sick of seeing this s***. I have absolutely zero reason to watch White Sox baseball right now. The few players I do like aren't even playing that good and the team looks dead out there, dead.

Here's the link to the chat NS: http://www.baseballamerica.com/chat/?1242663718 Starts right now

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 18, 2009 -> 11:06 AM) So here is a weird question for you guys who know more about college ball than I do... I went to Iowa State, and flirted with the idea of trying to walk on there. Didn't do it. I looked into the program there a bit, and it looked like (at that time) they were pretty much the bottom of the Big 8 (now Big 12). How would I look into seeing what, if any, Iowa State players have been drafted? Made it to the majors? And does anyone know anything about the current state of the program? Sorry for the tangent. Matt, that would be a really good question to put into one of the free Q&A's Baseball America does. You might even be able to get it in today as BA is doing its college chat right now. I personally have no idea on any guys that were drafted out of Iowa State. Another good spot, check out Iowa State's baseball page cause it usually tracks alumni especially this time of year. Oh and more specifically, I rarely follow baseball in the big ten because aside from a few teams its just not very good. Indiana has a few good guys this year, Ohio State is decent, Michigan has its years, Minnesota has had some solid squads, but rarely if ever do I see a team that is a legit playoff contender or is fulled with top talent.

That might be a little too much to ask for at this point, given he might only have 2 more starts this season, which does mean there is at least a decent shot he's available with our compensatory pick.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ May 18, 2009 -> 10:15 AM) In yesterdays game thread or somewhere within the site Cowley talked about Ramirez shagging fly balls and putting on a show at chasing everything down. It truely is amazing what can happen when you let a pitcher who is not ready to start get themself in trouble. Interesting. Glad to see they are least testing him out in CF.

Dyson is a name that wasn't called during the 1st round of Baseball America's first mock draft. However, he's a name that might end up going in the first round on draft day and this weekend (May 16th, 2009) he had one of his best collegiate outings of the season against a strong LSU squad. Whether he climbs as high as the Sox pick at 23 or if he stays at the current projections, which would have him going sometime in the supplemental to early 2nd round (again, where the Sox could target him), your talking about a guy that prior to this weekend, most scouts saw as a future reliever. However, this weekend might have changed my opinion and made him a better prospect who has the upside of the rotation but the safeside of being a valuable reliever. Why I'd target him? It's his stuff, plain and simple. Dyson features a very hard fastball, which sits in the mid 90's and his second to last outing he touched 97-98 multiple times, and that includes his final two pitches, which were a 98 and 97 MPH fastball (to end a strong 7 inning performance). The velocity didn't shock the scouts, it was his secondary stuff which shocked them. Dyson has been a fastball pitcher all season, rarely showing any secondary pitches, but this week he broke out a very good looking (albeit raw) hammer curve, some of which were plus pitches. The velocity good on the hammer curve upper 70's to low 80's and I think its something the Sox minor league pitching coaches can ideally help him further develop that pitch. He also flashed a decent change-up, one that could turn into a very solid 3rd pitch. So as a whole, in a matter of a start, Dyson went from being a one pitch reliever to a potentially three pitch starter, one of those pitches being a very very plus fastball. While the 23rd pick is probably too early to take him, unless he really shows further development with that secondary stuff in his conference tourney and in the playoffs, I wouldn't look passed him being a solid pick in the compensatory rounds. Below is a quote from him, via Baseball America:

What do you mean, ramirez puts on an OF show?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 18, 2009 -> 09:54 AM) You make him sound a lot like Aaron Poreda. Similar fastballs, but this guy has a much better feel for his breaking stuff and in general has far better and far more projectable secondary stuff. He also has a much more fluid delivery, which is why I think he's got a better shot at making it as a starter. I just don't consider Poreda a starting pitching prospect but I keep hoping that secondary stuff gets there and it might not takes as much as expected since he does get great sink on his fastball.

You might be wondering why I'm about to spend the time to do a write-up on a potential 10th or even 15th round prospect, but its because this guy has a lot of tools, but hasn't put it together (see a quote from a scout further on below in this post). Every scout I've seen talks about this guy as having a top 2 or 3 arm round and a 1st round fastball. He was also the #3 ranked prospect in the Northwoods Summer League (a collegiate summer league). But those same scouts seem to indicate he's either going to be a star or a bust, all depends on what happens with his secondary stuff and as of now, the switch hasn't flipped as he's been repulsive at Long Island (College) and the scout quote below isn't old, his stuff is still there, just a matter of stuff clicking. The big reason I want to talk about him is that the Sox have done a good job finding this guys who didn't produce in college but had pretty big time arms. Some of them have panned out or looked like decent picks (Hudson/Carter), others (see Nick Lemon), haven't. But bottom line, these are the type of picks that can make a draft truley stellar and Jones has a low to mid 90's fastball with action from the left side. He also throws a slider and curve, but both are considered major project pitches and I read one scout's take who said he needs to just give up on one because its preventing him from finding any consistency as he tends to open wide and really has no feel for either pitch currently (although he'll throw one or two good ones a game). His 2nd best pitch is his fringe change-up where he currently slows down his delivery so he definately doesn't have a feel for it, but scouts feel it could be a solid 3rd pitch in time and he actually shows decent command given the trouble he has had finding secondary stuff. He was pre-season #30 on Baseball America's top collegiate prospect list. He's also a very good collegiate hitter who plays 1B and OF and was widely regarded as the top defensive Cfer in the Eastern League. His everyday play also makes him a great sleeper candidate as he's yet to really focus on pitching. Bottom line, this is the type of guy you take and let your coaches work with him and if he pans out, great, if he doesn't, your talking about a latter round pick so its not the end of the world. From One Scout: Player Profile (Long Island) http://www.liuathletics.com/roster.aspx?rp...p;path=baseball Season Stats (as of 5/18/09): 1-9, 7.40 ERA, 12 GS, 69.1 INN, 94 H, 64 K, 28 BB

James Paxton is a very projectable, hard throwing collegiate lefty out of the University of Kentucky. He's a Canadian that was highly touted back in 2006, but was passed up on as teams were concerned about his elbow soreness, which turned out to be nothing but growing pains (According to BA). So as Paxton was passed up in the draft, he opted to go to Kentucky where he was seldom used as a Freshmen and than took on a large role working as a swingmen/mid-week starter as a Sophmore. As a Junior he's really put things together and is the Friday starter (ie, collegiate #1) at Kentucky. The velocity on his fastball has increased from the low to mid 90's, into the mid to upper 90's as he consistently pitches in the 94 MPH range now and will throw the ocassional pitch 97. The more important thing or impressive thing is the action Paxton gets as his fastball shows good sink and movement. He also features what is a good and his second pitch is a very slurvy curve-ball, but Paxton features a decent change-up and his pitching coach said he's been developing a tighter curve to go with the slower slurvy curve. As a whole this is a guy that is climbing draft boards and at 6-4 he has the nice frame you look for in a pitcher. A lefty with this type of stuff is rare in a system and if he can develop his secondary pitches your talking about a potential high impact arm from the left side and an exception value at the 23rd pick. With it looking like Brothers won't be there, Paxton is starting to become my guy, although there is definately a shot that he'll be gone as well, but most boards have him projected between 18 and 25. BA's first mock draft had him going to the Jays at #20.

His slider is definately better than I thought it was. I'd have a bit less problems if the Sox took this guy. I was able to see some video clips and he looked a bit more impressive. Especially when I heard some of the things the college analysts were talking about him. I don't love the guy with our pick, but I hate it a bit less, cause he does have upside. HE's a 2 pitch pitcher (FB/Slider) and his slider is a good pitch (went from average to good and it's flashed signs of being plus). Ocassionally throws a splitter but its completely raw and per his college coaches they have not worked with him on any other pitch, which to me means the potential is there for him to learn more. His velocity has also increased every season at IU and his last couple starts he's been hitting 94 deep into the games, which is a very good sign.

Here's some info on the guys Danks is usually compared to the most, his Texas teammate Drew Stubbs: From Baseball America