kapkomet

QUOTE (lostfan @ Sep 30, 2009 -> 12:56 PM) You are under the assumption that everyone knows/thinks this. "Iiffff Youuu (youuuu) likeee (likkeeee) yoouurrr (youuur) current (current) plannnnn (plannnn) youuuu (youuu) can (can) keeeeeep (keeep) ittt (ittt)." Please. HB3200 totally dismisses that - TECHNICALLY that's correct but everyone gets pushed over to the "public option" eventually and that is what pisses people off. And that's exactly what's going to get "reconciled". Again, and again, and again, the majority of people do not want GOVERNMENT providing the country health care. Reform? Hell yes. Government takeover? Hell no.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 30, 2009 -> 12:47 PM) No, I'm telling you that every poll and every survey published so far indicates a majority of people, even a majority of health care professionals, want reform, and want a public option. YOU said that wasn't true, which flies in the face of reality. I know people want reform. Duh. We've all said that. But where the line is... is the public "OPTION", which in reality, isn't an "OPTION" at all over time. That's where the polls turn pretty dramatically, and that has been and continues to be my point. That's why the town halls and all of that happened. My point is no more or no less. And BS, seriously, I don't watch Fox News. I think I've had it on a total of about two hours in the last two years. Maybe I should start.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 30, 2009 -> 09:40 AM) Kap, everyone knows what occurred in those town hall meetings was more a reflection on which side was the best organized and funded to have their people there. Demonstration are never a great way to judge popularity, especially when many people attended to fight shadows because of the gross amount of misinformation that has been spewed. They don't want death panels! They don't want socialism! They don't want what the GOP radio network has told them. You guys live in a paralell universe or something. The town halls were all people that were paid, planted, and "organized" BY INSURANCE LOBBYISTS just like Obama said they would, right? It couldn't be that people don't want government run health care. It just couldn't be.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 30, 2009 -> 09:53 AM) Some aren't. Just like the climate change debate, not every scientist or every scientific piece should be taken at face value. But in both cases, when ALL OF THEM line up to the same conclusion more or less, its time to face reality. What reality? What the hell are you talking about? No one says that something doesn't need to be done. So what you're telling me is everyone wants government run health care? Bull.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 30, 2009 -> 09:32 AM) I'm not sure they are going to need reconciliation. What they need is to convince dem senators to vote for cloture, but if they want, against the bill. The big PO vote will be when the house and senate get together. That is reconciliation.

BTW, reconciliation is going to be where the public option all of a sudden ends up on the table again. And there's no way to stop that.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 10:07 PM) What do you mean? They absolutely are. They just can't get the votes to do it because they're a pretty undisciplined coalition and there is a segment of their party that got bought off by the lobbyists. edit: "they" means the president, the party leadership, and the liberal base. It just can't be that the "blue dogs" realize they are GONE as a result of the PEOPLE speaking up, can it? It has to be 100% about the lobbyists and cronisim and how they're a bunch of p*****s now because they're not going far enough. It cracks me up that when people actually rise up about an issue that's against liberal idealism, it's everything in the world as to why except that people tend to be right of center and don't want their government messing with their lives more then they already are. Why, that CANNOT happen, can it?

QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 09:54 PM) Down With Hitler Zombie! What the f*** is that?

It is miserable working with old PC's like that.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 04:15 PM) They're trying to link Obama to all of Hitler's atrocity through extremely weak ties in economics. Any mention of Hitler, no matter how unrelated, immediately conjures up fascism, oppression and the Holocaust. I wish people would just leave Hitler dead, and all related comparisons.

Yea, but there's a hell of a lot of actual ground people (i.e. they know they aren't getting re-elected aka, VOTES) if the government crap happened. They were getting their backsides singed and they'd rather stay then get booted out of office. Now, with that said, I'm not naive enough to understand that lobby money didn't play a part in this, but again - libs simply can't admit to themselves that the majority of people do not want government being the solution here. And for the billionth time, and as I've (and others) even proposed in this thread, no one is saying do not reform things. But the public takeover, the majority of the people don't want it. I don't get why that's so unclear.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 08:32 PM) LOL "I refuse to believe any polling data but my gut tells me that Americans don't want this". "The people spoke on this one". Yeah, if only there had been some sort of official poll done, perhaps using paper or electronic ballots, where one person had pushed a national health care system and the other had pushed a system of expanded tax credits for health care costs. If only that had happened 11 months or so ago, we might have had some idea...if only. You won't except polling results, you won't accept election results, you won't accept that any of the town hall riots had official organization, you won't accept that there were dozens fo town halls that didn't get covered because no riots happened... Really...your rant here is quite impressive. I get it. Anything that opposes your great viewpoints with data up the ass is "wrong". Data is manipulated all the time - the black and white of do you want the government to run your health care or have private companies run it is pretty basic - but that question doesn't get asked. It's a bunch of pretty, veiled BS to make it look like everyone wants government health care. THEY DO NOT. They DO want reforms, but not the government run it. Oh, and the town halls were ORGANIZED. Right. I'm sick and damn tired of it. They were organized all right. SEIU, NEA, etc. And they couldn't even stop the fact that there were a hell of a lot of ordinary people that were voicing the fact that they were pissed off. Man, that could NEVER happen in America. NEVER. They were ORGANIZED. Glenn Beck did it.

You all can't stand the fact that the town halls, etc. and the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DO NOT WANT THIS s***. You can take your little polls and twisted language to solicit a response you want to hear, but (again) the majority, an overwhelming one at that, do not want state-run health care (and you all know damn well that's where it was going). You can sugar coat this any way you want about lobbyists, money, bribes, etc. but the Dems know that if they do (and there's still a {pretty good} chance it does in some form, just different language then "public option") shove this down our throat they're out of power again. The PEOPLE spoke on this one, and it's about damn time.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 11:36 AM) I found it interesting that in a bunch of states one insurer controls like 80+% of the market share. that's staggering! That's misleading. It drops out medicare/medicaid and it also neglects self paid employers.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 10:03 AM) Clearly we should only trust Bush and Cheney to tell the truth about their presidencies. Anyone else is clearly lying. The money in Washington (aka the media) is to make Bush look stupid, you all saying stuff like this is proof of it. You people hate the guy so much that you just lap this s*** up that AHB posted as "more proof" that the guy was "stupid" or whatever else. Clearly, everything that comes out about the administration being either wrong, stubborn, stupid, or ignorant are trustworthy. It's a pretty clear fact that Bush had respect for Kennedy even though they may not have agreed on everything. I'll leave it at that.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 09:51 AM) so he learned from his boss. The point here is he's making s*** up to sell books.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 09:18 AM) Bush White House Denies J.K. Rowling and Ted Kennedy Presidential Medal of Freedom This guy (Latimer) is a f***tard.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 10:58 PM) Yeah, I interviewed with a school today that I'm very optimistic I'll get. I'd be working with mostly adults, the school has a good reputation with businesses in the area so they are sending their employees there to learn english. I hope it works out, it seems like a great fit. I appreciate the lead, though, I'll let you know if it arrives. Places like Brazil, Argentina, have a lot of demand for learning English, so even in times where classes aren't heavy, you can find plenty of students for private lessons once you get networking. I think that's a very good way to get your "network" going. Hope it works out for you!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 10:59 PM) If the had a couple billion dollars worth of weapons, they'd be doing a lot more than firing the occasional unguided rocket. Huh. That's craziness you're talking now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 10:18 PM) How many other countries do we give a couple billion in arms to every year? The Palestinians, for one, albiet indirectly.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 09:17 PM) I'm of the opinion that both sides (all three, if you toss in Iran) are a bunch of asshole who do s***ty things. No excuses for the Palestinians, no excuses for the Israelis. Fair enough - but I guess if someone was trying to kill me every day, I wouldn't think very fondly of them either.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 09:10 PM) What are they replacing it with? Israel doesn't even let them buy concrete to fix their homes. OK, by that same logic, where's the billions we are sending them going? OHHHH, I only get three guesses, and the first two don't count. Oh Isreal, they just make those poor people suffer so. Here we go again.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 08:55 PM) Do you have any idea how much it costs to replace the stuff Israel destroys every few years? However much we're sending them. A few billion here and there. Meh.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 07:37 PM) Bartholomew That has a certain ring to it.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 06:59 PM) Yeah I got off track for a minute. Most of what I said applies to Israel too. Iraq's response to having their facilities bombed was to sponsor terrorism against Israel for the next couple of decades, Iran is already doing that but they'd step it up (they could if they wanted). Sure they could, but we're sending the Palestinians enough money to cover some of that. Yea, they use that money for humanitarian aid... wink wink, nod nod.