kapkomet

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 11, 2009 -> 09:09 AM) I think you are misusing the term "straw man" here, but that is an aside. More to the point, I fail to see how preventative care becomes deciding what will and will not be treated. How do you make that leap? And how is that something that makes preventative care somehow bad? Again, because our government is going to mandate what "preventative care" is. How many people don't get yearly checkups now? And if you don't, oh, you have a medical issue? Tough poo poo, buddy, because I see you weren't in the system for "preventative care". Of course, by itself, preventative care is good. However, it will be used as a mechanism to deny services down the road, and that's bad. And that is partly what I'm getting at. The other part is, by mandating "preventative care", costs will go up because you will have a mass flood of people because they will not otherwise get care down the road.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 11, 2009 -> 07:53 AM) I don't jump into these health care discussions a lot because I think its incredibly complicated, and I don't have a good holistic solution in mind. But this... ...is ridiculous. You think that preventative care is a straw man? First, that doesn't even make sense, as preventative care exists. Second, if you are saying its bad, I don't get that at all. Clearly, measures you take to be healthier via regular maintenance (diet, exercise, and yes, regular checkups to detect problems early) are a huge win for everyone involved. Lowers the need for more expensive health care, makes us all healthier... how can you possibly be against that? If the definition of "preventative care" must include being told by our government what it constitutes, then it is a straw man that will lead to what will and will not be treated - and will be incredibly costly because now the system will require payments on "preventative care" visits.

QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 10:57 PM) I've been meaning to ask was Beckham the first prospect from the 08 draft to hit the big leagues? I don't think so?

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 10:31 PM) Question... hasn't the planet been going through climate changes it's whole existence? If so, why should we worry so much about this one? Why do we have to change everything we do if this could be a natural happening? Man is an evil motherf***er. He has to be stopped, because He's too greedy.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 10:21 PM) So the brilliant solution is to add "50,000,000" people to the system for free, well at the riches expense, and that will fix things. We have a fixed number of care providers, facilities, and drug companies. If we are complaining that our system is bad now, how is adding 20% more load, while reducing the incentive to be better by the people providing the goods and services going to make it better? The answer is it won't. Wait times will explode. Quality of care will plummet, and the number of people willing to work in the sector is going to dry up because any monetary incentive will be destroyed by the government. We will kill more people with government health care, than we do with the evil private system we have now, mark my words. But at least we will be like the rest of the world.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 09:19 PM) Do you really and truly think that individuals are currently making health care decisions? That the decision is not being made by 1. the individual's doctor, 2. the individual's insurance company, and 3. at a long distance back, the individual? And frankly, do you really think individuals are qualified to be the ones making health care decisions? I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm not. Trying to scare me with the idea of a bureaucrat making decisions about health care doesn't work when it's already happening...just happens to be done by a person who's job is to do everything possible to make sure that his or her company doesn't have to pay the bill. Furthermore...saying "Everyone can get health care now if they want to make that choice" is a wonderful straw man...because that's not the issue. The issue is that the way people are being forced to get health care is vastly, VASTLY more inefficient than the alternatives. Not going through preventative care is vastly more expensive than having to deal with something major that could have been avoided. Going to an emergency room for care is vastly more expensive than being able to see a regular physician. Preventative health care is a straw man, too, IMO. It will lead to dictates of what will and will not get treated.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 09:38 PM) I have been in a situation in the last three years where I had to decide whether or not to file a claim on some diagnostic work because I feared having my coverage dropped as a result of the kind of tests that were required. I have been in a situation in the last year where I was denied the only available medical plan to me that I could afford because I was eligible for a much more expensive plan in another state that would not honor any claims I made because I lived in the wrong state. Bureaucracy and managed care is alive and well in the US, just in the name of making money. These are the problems with our system - and you DO NOT FIX IT by having the government take it over. I saw where there is a "compromise" being floated about "health care co-operatives" being started up. Let's see the details on that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) No. But I believe that a health care system is a unique beast...because a modern society just can't function without it. Seriously? That is utopia at its finest, because medical decisions are taken away from the individual. I cannot see how anyone can be ok with that. EVERYONE can get health care now if they want to make that choice - because mechanisms are in place to make that happen.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) No. But I believe that a health care system is a unique beast...because a modern society just can't function without it. Seriously? That is utopia at its finest, because medical decisions are taken away from the individual. I cannot see how anyone can be ok with that. EVERYONE can get health care now if they want to make that choice - because mechanisms are in place to make that happen.

Yea, mother nature just blew s*** up around here. Things will be coming back around slowly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 03:20 PM) To answer your question of where you said it...it's a corollary of your view that people should be able to opt out. If you allow that, then you're rejecting the concept of a health insurance risk pool. There's no way around it. The argument I'm trying to make is that by living your economic life how you please...you're actually hurting others and hurting yourself at the same time. You really strongly believe in social utopia, don't you?

Yep, most important article ever. Headline news right here! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_foodie_in_the_house

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 07:06 PM) Don't you realize that having people actually opt out is a big part of killing the system? Again, it's a choice. People opt out for any number of reasons. They want to party instead of have health insurance. They are "young" and don't think they need it. It's expensive to that person... even though they knew that when the position was offered. So, people "opt out" and they go to a county hospital and get treatment anyway. So because of that, let's nationalize the whole thing! Yea, no over-reaction there. Oh, "we have a choice of public or private insurance under the Messiah plan". Bulls***. We won't after long because they are going to "incentivize" people to get on the gov't plan. Let's tax private insurance. Let's cut the business deductions for insurance. Let's have a VAT. We have to pay for this somehow! How fast will it take people and businesses to drop out of what they have now, because individuals are "getting a better deal" and "businesses simply can't carry that cost anymore" - that's when they have people by the balls, and they know it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 01:24 PM) Not that about half of that number of uninsured is illegal aliens or anything... I hate that number because it is such bulls***. And a lot of this number are people who opt out as well.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 06:43 PM) How does every other Western country afford it then? They ration the s*** out of it, they deny care and have year(s) long waiting lists, and I could go on. Oh, and they tax the piss out of their citizens. Obviously, we don't tax enough here.

What a star thread we have here. The intelligence just took a nose-dive.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 01:24 PM) Not that about half of that number of uninsured is illegal aliens or anything... I hate that number because it is such bulls***. Exactly - the sky is falling - leaving "Americans out in the cold". People make choices, and it effects a lot of things, including the ability to get health care. I'll repeat it again. Health care is not a right - to tie it to the PURSUIT of happiness doesn't mean it's a right. People have the right to pursue anything they want. And if it doesn't pay insurance bills, people made some choices that got them there to that point. So now, that (insert bulls*** number here) million people have to be covered by a government health program that is being rigged to force everyone off of private insurance, all in the name of controlling costs. I bet some people here are right - health care costs will be 1/3 the cost it is now in the future. It's because there will be only 1/100 of the services currently provided. The Obama plan is not "brilliant". It's a one way track to a single payor in disguise. He has to do it in increments because otherwise it's HilliaryCare all over again, and he knows it. However, in three to five years time, it will all be dictated by some f***ing suits in DC what health care we all get. I'm glad that's acceptable to people, but it's not me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 11:24 AM) This is why the "Public Option" as proposed by the President is such a brilliant move. If the Republicans are right and the public insurance option is a government run debacle...then what happens is we've altered the tax structure enough to find a way to push the uninsured in to the ranks of the insured,and hopefully cut costs because we won't have 50 million people using the vastly more expensive emergency care systems and getting appropriate preventative care. If, on the other hand, I'm right and the public system will be vastly more efficient than the private debacles we currently have...then either the private system will have to lower its costs to stay competitive or it will go extinct. There really is no downside for anyone other than a current insurance company executive. If the Republicans are right, then the public option barely costs anything, if the Democrats are right, then the public option keeps this country out of bankruptcy. This is the best quote from you ever.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 06:57 AM) Regulate the profits of insurance companies and the drug manufacturers (how to do this, I don't know). I'm not sure which one of those I hate more, but they work together. Drug companies can charge whatever they want, and the consumer never even knows how much they're paying since their insurance pays for it. And oh by the way - if you need to use your insurance, they charge you for it. It's pretty obvious the only thing they're interested is money, not your health. They don't even try to hide it. I don't think our current system is in the public's best interest at all. I had a post on here somewhere about how pharma companies work, seeing as how I used to work for one. And also how to reduce costs.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2009 -> 06:56 PM) Thankfully, no one is rationing health care right now. I know, the government can always do it better. Every time this is asked of you, you can't come up with an answer. Name me what would universally be called a good entitlement government program that is ran efficiently and doesn't cost more then they originally said it would - while still maintaining all the services that are promised. Private industry ALWAYS does it better then the government - even if private industry sucks.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 8, 2009 -> 01:06 PM) Trying to squeeze every taxable dollar out of you. I love the redistribution of wealth. And rationing. It's going to be great.

You guys knock Rush Limbaugh - he gave that CPAC speech without one note or telepromter, and it was pretty coherent. Why is this significant? My theory is that if you are speaking what you truely believe, you don't have to rehearse s*** ad naseum and read off of a telepromter to ensure every word is what you need it to be to make it sound like you know what you're talking about.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 6, 2009 -> 11:42 PM) Speaking of Mediterranean food, this brings up something I was talking about with Milkman the other day. It's really hard to find a gyro place outside of Chicago. Over there, they are a dime a dozen, even in the suburbs. This probably goes for New York too. They might have some down in DC, but in Maryland, I can only think of one place, and it's a good 20 minute drive away. I hear your pain. I need to find something down here that has good greek food. It just isn't here.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 6, 2009 -> 10:25 PM) I know I'm not the only one on here who likes doing this - matter of fact, I'm buying one right now. For those who have not done it, it's not at all what it looks like (a bong, basically). The smoke that comes out is clean and smooth, doesn't feel like cigarette smoke or anything like that. I used to have one when I was in Iraq, it only cost me about 25 bucks back then, but there used to be a rule against "drug paraphernalia" going thru customs. So I gave mine away before I left only to find out that they'd changed the rules, so I got rid of it for nothing. Here they are more like 80-110 dollars. Shopping in s***ty economies with US dollars > shopping in the US. Hell yes.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jun 6, 2009 -> 09:54 AM) actually, the more we let him go unchecked, the more he gets to spread his lies to people who actually think he is an unbiased truth teller. Because the DailyKos is SOOOOOOOO reliable.