GreenSox

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 08:34 AM) The problem is the White Sox would be $30-35 million over their supposed budget this year...that big a jump would be unprecedented without following playoffs or competitive seasons. Next year, less of an issue. Essentially it's deliberately spending into a loss for at least one year or more if it backfires..for a payoff more likely in 2017 and 18. Maybe so - I don't know what their budget is. But if they want to "go for it" in 2016 and if they think that they don't have the ML ready prospects to win with (which they obviously didn't think they have, as they jettisoned most of the ML-ready prospects), then they need to be flexible to achieve their plan of "going for it". The alternative is to chase someone like Cargo- scratch that, because you have to pay him $20 mill as well. Or one of those other Rockie-type OFs, who will cost Adams + Engel + a couple of others- and, who, I'm not convinced are anything special anyway. Maybe they'd wait until July, which would only make the situation worse and deprive the Sox of April-June production. Cespedes gives them the best balance of "going for it" + building the farm. If they're $10 mill over budget for 1 year, they need to deal with it.

A SS isn't a plan B. No SS will provide much offense. While I have no problem with Segura at a Segura value (i.e. basically zilch) wanting him or Alexei over Saladino is simply wanting a veteran for the sake of a veteran. This org. has had more than enough of Alexei. They should probably try to find a relief pitcher anyway. I figured they'd sign up Albers for another year.

If they only want 3 years, then frontload, not backload. Offer Cespedes 3/102, with an opt out after 3. 24 per for 3 years, then it drops to 15 per for 2. Opt out after 3.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 09:52 PM) Rockies do not need Parra at all. 2 of their top 5 prospects are OFers. Tapia and Dahl should be ready within a year or two. Tapia is still in A Ball and Dahl didn't exactly kill it last year. In the meantime, Parra gives stability and allows them to dump Cargo.

QUOTE (striker @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 10:13 AM) Danks, Engel, Spencer Adams and Avasail Garcia for Braun and Peralta. Good lord. I am not sure that Peralta could make the Knights' rotation, much less the Sox. and that's the best part of the trade.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 10:22 AM) If he was using the same approach and swing, yes it would be a waste. If they want to change some things up, it is worth a shot. Nelson Cruz was a failed AAAA player until he changed some things up and/or took some booster shots. you can include JD Martinez on that list.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) Still better than what they had, if only for defense. Hopefully the Sox get Frazier of 2014 and first half of 2015...that's what is needed to justify the trade. I think there's a decent chance the Sox see that. He's 2 years away from getting paid, so I'm confident we won't see him lollygagging, in contrast to other acquisitions.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 12:17 PM) And whant exactly does RV and pinch hitting have to do with market in-efficiency? May as well toss this thread into the scrap heap with the rest of the RV sucks threads thanks to the chronic whiners. Call the whaaaaaaambulance. Actually, I made one comment that the Sox field management doesn't take advantage of platoon and platoon-like situations, one of the elements of market inefficiencies, and then the groupthink proceeded to pile on post after post....not to analyze, because there was little analysis involved. As I've said before, Cubs have their goats and lovable losing.....and Sox fans are overly sentimental to their heroes and icons. As is, frankly, the front office. And to be fair to Ventura, to look at the other side, which I do, the front office has not done the best job in compiling a versatile roster, esp. bench (partially due to FO sentimentality).

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 11:52 AM) I think the Cardinals are a dark horse for Gordon and I think SF is a dark horse for Cespedes. Yes, SF is the team that worries me.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 11:24 AM) You have yet to come up with one legitimate example where Robin failed to platoon correctly. He doesn't platoon for the purpose of real platooning at all. so the only evidence i can provide is pinch hitting and pinch running. Evidence which is, predictably, ignored. Now the CW is that Soto with his .780 OPS against lefties is no good....esp compared to Laroche and his .383 OPS. Why wouldn't you play a 2nd catcher at another position? To protect against the slight chance that the starting catcher is injured? So you put yourself at a disadvantage game after game, to protect the slight chance that the starting catcher may get hurt and cost you one game? And the groupthink keeps rolling on.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 09:49 AM) As has already been pointed out, look at the options on the bench Robin has had to work with. One player he had was Soto. He pinch hit a grand total of 4 times. He DHd 3 games.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 08:37 AM) Lol, Parra and Jackson improve the team to the same extent as Gordon if platooned correctly. That's funny Gordon OPS - .809 Parra split OPS - .809 Jackson split OPS - .770 Younger, didn't spend time on the DL, doesn't cost a draft choice, provides a better bench and more versatility. And much cheaper. Preposterous idea, I know. The groupthink around here is beyond belief. Especially when it's non-stop advocacy of a methodology that has repeatedly failed. Vanquish us non-believers.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 08:25 AM) I always love the "if he was platooned correctly" line. Ventura platooned Trayce Thompson early to perfection, yet when he platooned him, people complained. He needs to be playing every day. Especially with the way bullpens are used today, if you platoon and yank a guy early, you are going to have a match up later where someone will call the manager a fool for not using players correctly. It was a lot easier when they had 15 or 16 position players on the roster. Now that it is 13 or sometimes even 12, the idea of being able to platoon all over the place is hogwash, especially when starting pitchers are making shorter appearances. Well of course you do. Nothing like 3 years of non-competitive teams. He platooned Thompson to ease him in because he was a young player, not because he couldn't hit right handed pitching. Right handed Avi, not "proven veteran" Melky, was his primary platoon partner. Based on his use (or non-use ) of pinch hitters, moves such as pinch running for Abreu in close games in late innings (even when Abreu wasn't the lead runner), limited use of defensive replacements, it remains to be seen whether he can operate in this fashion. (thankfully, he cut back on the pinch running for Abreu stuff). Now the Sox haven't had a decent bench in years, so maybe with more options, we'd see more use.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 07:18 AM) Kazmir can opt out of his contract after next season. The free-agent class of pitchers is particularly thin next off-season, with Stephen Strasburg, Andrew Cashner and the Dodgers' Brett Anderson projected as the top available starters. Zaidi said the Dodgers were comfortable letting Kazmir walk away after one season because of that organizational depth, the possibility of getting an extra draft pick for Kazmir next off-season and the motivation that another shot at free agency might provide Kazmir next season. "In Scott's case, he and his representation are aware that next year's free-agent starting pitching market will probably be a pretty good seller's market," Zaidi said. "From our standpoint, we have a lot of good young pitching that we feel is going to be ready to contribute at some point in 2016 and certainly by 2017. No major league team used fewer than eight starting pitchers last season. The Dodgers used 16, the most in the majors, according to Baseball Reference. http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/la-s...1231-story.html You can start to see an argument forming for one of Gallardo, Chen, Latos and Fister being acquired by the White Sox on a one-year deal...you add Parra/A.Jackson/Span on 1-2 or 2+ option deals...and then possibly make a run at Desmond or Fowler for 2/3rd's worth of a 2016 contract OR add at the trade deadline. Financially, it's much more risk-averse than putting all your eggs in one Big 3 basket. Argument being that Fulmer is added to the rotation in 2017 and you have Danks/Johnson as insurance this year in case a starter goes down or misses time, which happened to every team in the majors last year. But would JR approve? I think it's a reasonable approach; I think Parra/Jackson would markedly improve this team....basically to the extent Alex Gordon would IF they platoon them properly (big if with the skills of this manager). 2 year deals would fit right with the Todd Frazier window. However, there is no way you can do this with Desmond, Chen, Gallardo or anyone with a QO. From the Sox perspective, 3 top 50 picks is a big chance to invigorate the farm. But from anyone's perspective, losing a nice draft choice for 1 year of a so-so player is not the way to go. If you are going to lose a draft choice, make it worthwhile.

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 01:01 AM) In short, I disagree with the lack of depth comment. Even after these deals there's enough Jordan Guerrero's, Chris Beck's, and Adam Engel's to entice other teams with visions of potential longterm steals without letting go of guys like Anderson, Fulmer, or Adams. I have been rather impressed in Hahn's ability to sell what appears to be high on a lot of these guys to land a bigger fish. A great way to manufacture roster value. I certainly agree that the execution of trades for the vets is way better under Hahn....2nd tier prospects are used (although I think some of those guys are pretty good; and I'd take a look at some rosters before devaluing a player just because of where he was drafted). However, the evaluation of the veteran himself is sorely lacking. How many more Dunns, Laroches, Melkys and Samardzijas are they going to add to this team? Some I guess is bad luck; some is bad fit (why add a fly ball pitcher like Samarzija, and if you do, why put the worst OF defense imaginable out there by signing Melky?).

Jennings is okay. Pretty good against lefties and righties. But he's just not a LOOGY who will dominate lefties; those guys are often hapless against righties, so maybe it's just as well. Sox pen walked too many last year. Hopefully they can correct that. I'd like to see Putnam pull it all together this year and become a righty Thornton of old.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 29, 2015 -> 06:29 PM) Hero worshipping. Robbie wouldn't know when to pull this one year rent. Sure he would. He'd kick Erik Johnson. And yes, Dick, you and KW's theories of proven veterans have done nothing but produce... a whole 2 playoff teams in 15 years.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Dec 29, 2015 -> 08:20 PM) Austin Jackson a FA, right? What would he cost? yes, no comp. I think he's a good player, but he's hit poorly against righties recently. Our boy Slat is now saying the Sox signed Latos. This guy must delete all of his tweets that turn out bogus.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 28, 2015 -> 03:39 PM) Not really prospective at his age, maybe a midseason promotion to CHA Special case; he's only played pro ball for like a year.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 29, 2015 -> 08:04 PM) Agree I'd like Austin Jackson platooning with LaRoche. Given the choice, I prefer an OF of Jackson-Eaton-Cespedes. That would be pretty solid. Just as soon get the OF D fixed if they are going this far. And dare I suggest that a Jackson/Parra platoon in lieu of the big ticket guy might work as well.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 29, 2015 -> 07:54 PM) If we get another outfielder, I prefer him getting at bats in Charlotte every day in anticipation of a possible LaRoche release if he is terrible the first few months. I can see that, but they need a RH bench bat. If they really think that they can contend, which I assume they do, you can't go into the season and hand Laroche the bat against lefty pitchers. A guy like Austin Jackson can hit lefties pretty well and his D isn't bad.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 29, 2015 -> 07:38 PM) Maybe he means Melky gets time in DH spot against lefties but plays outfield against righties? Though that would technically be a platoon of LaRoche and guy who plays outfield against lefties (as of now, Avi). That would move Melky to RF, which he has played very sparingly. Cespedes has never played right, and I seem to recall him causing a ruckus about his position when with Boston. I do like the idea of not moving Avi purely to platoon DH.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 29, 2015 -> 07:21 PM) Yeah, I'm not buying that part of it. Doubtful they add Cespedes only to start Avi everyday. Not much difference between Avi and Melky. But using Melky as a lefty platoon doesn't make much sense.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 29, 2015 -> 07:24 PM) This was followed quickly at mlbtraderumors with a piece on Alexei still being in play. I know that info was spoken of earlier, but it makes sense if theyre indeed signing Cespedes. It makes no sense. Alexei is a declining ballplayer who spent the last 3 year putting on a clownshow. I realize this org. has a thing about young players, but I would hope they could fit ONE young ballplayer onto the team. Cespedes is a veteran, and if he needs his hand held, I'd much rather a professional like Abreu leading the way.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 29, 2015 -> 07:18 PM) He also claims Melky will platoon with LaRoche at DH. I hope Melky hits lefties a heck of a lot better than he did last year.