GreenSox

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 08:59 AM) Why? I would be all for it if I knew that we were raising our overall budget. But if we may need a starter next year and need budget flexibility to fill needs. And it's certainly better than trading young players for the likes of Frazier.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 09:17 AM) just yesterday he said that Frazier strikes out the same as Chris Carter Actually I didn't. I said they both strike out a lot. The difference, of course, is that you guys want to ravage the farm system and throw the same horrid outfield defense out there. Frazier's best OBP was .336. Last year it was .309, to accompany his .669 second half OPS. And yet you guys want to trade serious assets for that. How many times do we have to load up with low OBP ballplayers? Sure Chris Carter is high K low OBP. His 25 homers are also FREE. They won't hurt the club long term. Adding Frazier would maul it. Who's the last hitter that improved with the Sox. I'll tell - Eaton and Quentin. Common denominator? YOUNG and we traded equal value for YOUNG players. That's actually worked. So what do the Sox do when an approach works? Dump it in the trashcan and go after "proven veterans" again, an approach that has consistently failed. What exactly would Frazier add? A good bat? Maybe. Could be a mediocre bat if we follow what has happened in the past with these NL sluggers. Defense? Nope. We fixed that with Lawrie. Yes, he's average at best overall but it's stable. (and yes, some want to move him to 2nd to squeeze out the promising Sanchez at 2nd for a proven mediocre player). Does OF defense improve? Nope. Package will likely include Trayce and we're back to the same clowning we had last year. Heck if we do nothing, we're much better defensively than we were last year and if we use the players correctly, we'd have a plus defensive team. That was a big weakness last year. But you can't watch defense on home run derby.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 08:48 AM) Melky is the perfect 2 hitter. Especially if we can acquire guys like Upton and Frazier. Our 1-6/7 in the lineup would be really really good. Melky and his .710 Ops = 7 hole hitter As for Frazier, if rents, low OBP and high K acquaint ion philosophy repeatedly fails, keep doing it until it work.

This may work out well. Big spenders don't seem to be involved. Upton is a solid player. I wouldn't sign him but he's my first choice if we must acquire a proven veteran. And given that the Sox seem like they want to convince themselves that they can cimpete in 2016, he's the choice.

He's much better than Frazier and without the loss of young talent. Sign him and dump some combination of Melky, Avi, Laroche Upton-Trayce-EAton is a nice defensive outfield. And if the Sox dump Trayce in this "package" for some slugger, the horrendous OF defense from last year won't improve.

I still don't get this: 2 year rent NL Slugger High K, low OBP Dreadful 2nd half Splits heavily tilted to home park. Do we forget so quickly?

Pick up Chris Carter for nothing. He'll hit 25ish. Let him DH Sure he'll K a lot, but so will the elite, the greatest, Todd Frazier. Meawhile, we can get another year of development from Sanchez, Thompson and whoever our SS is. I'm not interested in any of these guys who will require our 2nd tier prospects either. You can add Todd Frazier or whomever, and this is a 80-84 win team on paper....less if the OF defense stays the same as it is. Refsnyder can't play defense. find someone who comes real cheap like Lawrie or Carter.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 10:23 PM) Not only that, but the Sox also need to be careful with their pitching depth going forward. They will have one spot open after this year and the hope has to be it will be for Fulmer. Danish fading last year hurt, but it was offset by EJohnson gaining steam. The Sox have made a few trades that, in my mind, were a little strange...essentially low ceiling starter prospects for minor league relief pitchers. Generally you have a reasonable chance of turning some of these minor league starters into relievers so I'm not sure what the point was. Still, they really haven't traded anyone that figured to be in the rotation. They may have to sign a FA starter next year...so be it. Honestly, had the Sox traded Q for 2 young position players who could start, they would almost be in a position where they could contend with 2 signings - a)a pitcher to replace Q and b)a hitter. Because the Sox don't want to trade any good players or sell high, they could trade their prospects..but this would also require at least supplemental FAs AND the whole scheme would be on a tight 2 year window with zero room for error...kind of what the Sox have been doing for 7 years.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 09:39 PM) Montas for McMahon seems like a better fit. Definitely no to Fulmer. Indeed. That would make some sense.

And Trayce could easily be as good as any of these guys, so let's find out, instead of not finding out when these guys won't bring the Sox into contention anyway. And don't forget to factor in Coors field in the stats evaluations.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 04:21 PM) Well....except for offense Eaton's offense and his d is not good. wait until most holes are plugged and the org. Is built and then fill with impact bats

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 07:55 PM) http://southsideshowdown.com/2015/12/11/wh...ce=snsanalytics McMahon has some pretty nice stats. Probably going ton be blocked by Arenado. Sure he'd be a nice pick up. But for goodness sakes not for our #2 prospect. That he's blocked is supposed to lower the price, not raise it.

Absolutely not. Lose a draft pick. Nothing he brings that the Sox don't already have. Thompson, Eaton, Avi/Melky.....it's really not bad. No heroes; no NL sluggers; but not bad.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 07:49 AM) I view it this way: 1) He is a solid improvement at 3RD, over what we had last season. 2) His contract is very reasonable, for the next 2 years, and then Trey Michalczewzski can take his place 3) He has enormous upside, and could be a star 4) His acquisition did not cost any top prospects, or create any holes. There is no reason not to gamble on his character issues, which involve intensity and confidence. Those are positive attributes, even if he does seem to overdo both, at times. I agree with all except number 3. 1,2 and 4 are good enough for me however. Teams don't go from 76 wins to playoffs without tremendous infusion of talent( unless they flukeishly underperformed to get 76, which the Sox didn't), young or old. Sox won't have tremendous infusion this year so save the young players.

How many wins does Lawrie add? One? How many wins would Frazier add with a big year? 4 or 5? That gets us to .500, people. Big whoop. This needs to be a year for development. See what we have. Sure we can trade Trayce....but no one is going to give us a premium price for him precisely because he doesn't have the minor league pedigree. Had he torn it up in the minors AND had a month like this, he'd be a top 10 prospect. We may have a gem. We may not. But I doubt he's dud. See what we have in Sanchez as well. And Micah. Let Saladino fill whatever we need. See how the A ball talent (which looks strong) develps.

Is this a surprise? He plays great D, hit nearly .900 OPS. of course teams would want him....it's just people around here and the Sox org. has this thing about "proven veterans". It's nuts. much prefer him than waste him as part of a package for Todd Frazier and his home-stilted stats, including a mighty .660 the 2nd half of last season. Or, sell high (for once!) and trade Eaton for a hitter and put Trayce in center. Or keep Eaton and put Trayce there anyway How people don't want to give this guy a chance is beyond belief.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 06:54 AM) Not really a gamble for two reasons 1) Sox didn't give up anything of value 2) A bad year by Lawrie still makes the Sox better at 3B than they have been in a while Agree And he didn't push anyone out. If you move him to second, you push out a promising young young player for a mediocre veteran, which is a fools game

Teams with stuffed farms that are ready to compete can and do that sort of thing.

Unbelievable. After all of their prospect deals, the Braves can't scrape up someone from AAA that can best Bonifacio?

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 08:27 PM) Yes but I think the fact he plays both positions well defensively and really becomes a plus bat playing second. I think the move gives us the flexibility to continue talks with the Reds of we want and have the flexibility to move him to second. He doesn't have a plus bat at 2nd. Better than Sanchez for now. But Sanchez looks like he may be good. Prefer hitting the FA market for another bat rather than send Anderson for Frazier.

This stabilizes the Sox. Improves the team, smooths a real rough spot, and allows them to keep building.

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 08:06 PM) whoa, he had less value than i thought Certainly less than I feared. Good job holding out, Hahn.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 08:36 AM) Lawrie is light years better defensively Yes but it shows how mediocre he is offensively. Trayce and Engel along with Anderson are the only 3 prospects who show anything on offense. And they both play great defense. Sox are searching for hitting so they give up young players who look like they can hit for one who looks like he can't. Avi and a middle reliever. Bargain for a change, Williams and Hahn. Further it weakens out OF defense without Trayce and that was a huge problem. 3b defense wasn't. But the Sox are usually only about this year.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 08:00 AM) Why do you always criticize other people's ideas, yet you never throw anything out there yourself? I don't get it. I do. You just don't like what I throw out there. Acquire young talent. Don't trade for rents, career years and mediocre veterans. What the Sox are doing has a 100% failure rate. I have no interest in the average Lawrie, except on the cheap. This team is not competing in 2016, no matter how much fawning Williams and Hahn do at the feet of Billy Beane. No matter how many of our young players we hand over to him. And if the price I heard is correct, it's an outrage.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 07:50 AM) Just a guess but I think the Sox are looking to include Reddick. That's alot of outfielders Oakland is looking at and the Sox have a need for a real RF with defense. Reddick is left handed with pop and could hit behind Abreu. The Sox could fill two noles in one trade. Reddick would keep the Sox from spending big on a FA OF bat thus saving a '16 draft pick and could look at extending both Lawrie and especially Reddick since he's a FA after '16. I'm just speculating but the trade history between these two teams justifies the speculation. Which is why they shouldn't get Reddick. Another rent? Lord help us. Yea, yea, they'll extend him, they'll flip him...and they never do either. And saving draft choices isn't a savings if you are dealing away your prospects, which is what would happen. The clown gming has got to stop. And the love affairs with the As never end up well. See how the Cubs did it -they actually had a deal worked out for Castro before submitting the bid for Zobrist.