GreenSox

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 11:16 AM) It would be if it weren't for the fact the previous manager presided over a team with similar issues and had the same players Still is. The prior manager had these problems late in his career when he tired of his job. The current manager was brought in after a 10 year absence from MLB and are the result of lack of skill and experience, and don't indicate an organizational issue (other than hiring him in the first place).

We lost some of our leverage in pulling prospects for Rios, as teams know we want to open RF for Garcia. They may hold out for salary only But we still have it for Ramirez.

A lot of players lose their incentive to perform when they get that long-term contract in or past their prime as well. You can use a free agent or 2 to supplement, after you have a strong core. We have no core. Getting a catcher and CF who can play defense and a 1B who can hit and field his position would be a good start....neither of those are that hard to find.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 03:50 AM) This thread is ridiculous. With our market/payroll, you play to win every year. I can't believe I'm reading people say, "I want to lose next year." I refer you all to the Pirates/Royals/Padres of the late 90s/00's. Handfuls of early 1st round picks, nothing to show for it. Look at 1st rounds in the last ten years. Your first five picks will produce 2-3 MLB starters and then the last 25 picks of the round will give you 4-5 major league starters. You play to win the game. Picking #7 as opposed to #17 rarely makes a difference. This isn't the NBA/NFL. I agree with you. But it is getting harder and harder to win if you don't develop your own players or get young players in trade. We are good at developing pitchers...we need to use that to broaden the quality of our team. As for law, he's no better or no worse than most scouts. He's a bit condescending and dogmatic at times, but he's approachable by fans...i.e. you can read his reports and ask him questions. He has a blog and does a lot on twitter (heck he's responded to several of my questions on twitter). And he liked Rienzo...not loved but liked him. Again, a pitcher. In the case of Garcia, he's basically developed. Let's hope we evaluated him correctly.

The best trade of the deadline was the Astros getting one of KC's top 5-8 prospects for mediocre (at best) journeyman Justin Maxwell. The Royals didn't like De Aza?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 10:28 PM) I'm not saying the contract in itself is a bad one On an island it's a good contract. But we weren't on an island we were dealing with the trade market and the market makers said, we rather have a rental than take on that contract. So in that sense it was a bad contract. That contract and his time on the DL didn't mesh well regarding his appeal to other teams. Hahn did well getting a player they believe is an impact player...I just hope their evaluation, which has been spotty, is valid this time.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:59 PM) I posted in another thread, but Sox are going to start off Garcia in CF in AAA Good - Give him a shot there. Lord knows we need a CF.

Keep Danks. Trade Quintana and get 2 high end young position players in here who haven't reached their peak yet.

I went to high school with Mahtook's dad. He died passed away at a young age. Mikie Sr was all heart, just like the son. The LSU people loved the kid.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) After acquring Garcia and Jacobs, the Sox have some extra OF's that could be dangled with the most valuable probably being Trayce Thompson. Does Ramirez, Thompson, and Lindstrom get you Adams and Martinez/Wong? I'd probably rather just see if Alexei and Lindstrom could pull Adams though. it would be nice to go ahead and turn a few of those guys into ML players because while our minors may have a surplus our majors have a big deficit, and the more we have in the minors the better chance some develop.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:38 PM) Your criticism of his defense in center is all the more reason for him to move to left. He's hit better than Viciedo and Rios. he'd be better defensively in left, yes. But Viciedo is young and has more talent and I wouldn't flush him yet. I know his D is worse, but it's also in left where it'snot as important.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:51 PM) At the very least, Robin has to be embarrassed. Can you imagine going to work every day with these results? In the real world you'd get a lot of dirty looks and ultimately the pink slip if the guys you were responsible for were performing like this. They have to find a graceful way out for him. This is why you don't hire family members/insiders. and these insider forced coaches need to go to. let them do PR work.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:37 PM) Not that it matters, but at this stage of the season wouldn't it have been smart to let Reed pitch another inning? I mean what Axe did was sooooo predictable. Again, I realize it doesn't matter, but I was hoping he'd trot Reed back out there if nothing else but as a penalty for his putrid 9th inning. I'm just frustrated, but I knew the game was over when I saw Axe. Gutty guy, but his ship has sailed. Axe is like Humber. His days are numbered. Of course he could have pitched another inning. wouldn't it have been smart not to waste the 2nd to best reliever in a low leverage situation in the 6th? Axe may be out of fairy dust. But he doesn't have much short relief experience, and I'm not sure that the 10th inning is the time to give him his first taste. I blame Ventura but it could be Cooper running this operation for all I know.

The team's a joke and the manager's worse.

Has there been an instance all season, late in the game with the game on the line, that Ventura hasn't intentionally walked a player with the base open? And nice use of Nate Jones this evening, Robin.

NO. He's pitching well, except for home run balls. He might be able to fix that. A lot of his other numbers are pretty good.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 06:17 PM) The manager does not dislike walks. What are you talking about? It's the players. That's not what I said. I said that Guillen and Sox management didn't/don't value walks and plate discipline like other teams do, as per the personnel for the last decade. They haven't brought in a strong manager to change that culture and likely won't anytime soon.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 06:23 PM) Shared salary and a marginal prospect? If the Sox were OK with that, if they were claimed, they would just let the claiming team take on the entire contracts. Why pay for marginal prospects? Well I was thinking that we had a handshake agreement before the claim that we'd work out a deal with them on salary relief if they did claim them, then they would claim them. Maybe you can't do that. But if they can't do that, I'd say none except for perhaps Danks the younger and that doesn't matter anyway.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 06:20 PM) I think if anyone offered even a marginal prospect these guys would have been gone today. Perhaps, but I doubt they offered that. They wanted us to absorb some salary. We may be willing to do that in August.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 05:51 PM) Danks, Rios, Ramirez, Dunn, and Keppinger? Would be nice payroll relief. I'd like to see an infield the last 2 months of 1B Wilkins, 2B Gillaspie, SS Beckham, 3B Morel to see if anything is salvagable. Dunn, Rios and Ramirez will get claimed. I think teams are hoping we'll give them away for basically shared salary and a marginal prospect. Keppinger could get claimed; if we eat more salary and take an organizational minor leaguer it could stick. Which Danks? Both would be claimed. The younger is at minimum salary - someone will take a flier. We should keep him for this year anyway - better he than Wise. The Elder would have to be worked out like Rios et al.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 05:58 PM) That's an organizational flaw that got us where we are today. That's not changing they bring in a strong manager with a lot of cred who believed differently to change the culture. (but they won't do that as long as Ken Williams is around). Ozzie Guillen agreed with the philosophy to a T, and Ventura is just happy to be here.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 04:56 PM) De Aza would be #8 in OPS for all left fielders this year if that's where he was playing. He has a higher OPS than our current left fielder and our current right fielder (who presumably do have the offense to play those corners?). His WAR of .1 would tie him for 38th among LF and and 36th among CF. His D is bad. We should have moved him

Peavy wasn't going to bring an elite prospect...at least not one that most teams think is elite. But the Sox love Garcia and value him higher than most other teams would....they overlook or hold lower value on things (like walking and not striking out) that other teams don't overlook. They probably could have gotten a prospect that had a higher consensus rating, although not elite.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 03:55 PM) We are two bats and a couple of relievers away. CF De Aza 2B Beckham 3B Michael Young DH Dunn/Viciedo 1B Corey Hart RF Garcia LF Viciedo SS Ramirez C Phegley We can't put a defensive team like that on the field. Well win 60 games again. Maybe 70 as the offense is better. Phegly may be worse than flowers...0 walks and counting. YOung hitters, please.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 04:24 PM) Beckham, Dunn and Dayan werent getting traded. Lindstrom was borderline The other two are good chips and you want value for them that exceeds what they bring to the White Sox, or what they could bring even at the waiver deadline. Of course the value of this group in the field is about that of a 50-60 win team (the quality starting pitching bringing it up to a 70 win team, which I think we'd be if we had better coaching and more effort and things not snowballing as they have). We can't go into next year without some major upgrades in position players, to at least bring some guys who can play some D in here, if nothing else.