Jordan4life_2007

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 03:09 PM) For one, Millsap and Noah is not a good comparison but most importantly, the Bulls are about a million times better defensive team than those Jazz teams and once again that's with out having their best defender for a good part of the season now. And while Deron is a tremendous player, Rose is more of a guy that can just put a team on his shoulders and carry you if he needs to imo. It's obviously a wait and see approach since we haven't been healthy all year but I'll continue to state that I really believe some of you guys are underselling this team quite a bit. I agree that they haven't been a defensive juggernaut. But they've been one of the most efficient offensive teams in basketball over the last 4 years. And that all starts with Deron. I disagree with you when you say Rose can put a team on his back but Deron can't. Rose has exploded this year. Which is saying something considering how good he was the prior two years. But Deron has been doing his thing for the last 4 years or so. I know Noah and Millsap isn't a perfect comparison. But Noah is basically the better rebounder while Millsap is the better offensive player and commands a double team at times. I don't think I'm underselling the team at all. I think we've got a good team and have actually been better than I had anticipated. Which is even more impressive with the injuries. But the NBA is the one sport where talent wins out 9 times out of 10. I simply don't believe we can take Miami or Boston. Probably Orlando as well.

Oh, yeah. You shocked me to such a degree with the bolded part of your post that I forgot to respond to your original point. Yes, this isn't a debate. I just don't think Vargas has enough body of proven work to warrant a true underrated tag. He's only really had one decent year.

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 02:46 PM) I love how you're quick to say that it ain't supposed to be a debate when other people pick at your underrated picks, yet you're quick to debate my statement that Edwin Jackson is underrated. You crack me up a lot, J4L. : I actually think Jackson is getting paid exactly what he should be getting paid. I think he's a pitcher that's the same caliber as pitchers such as Danks, Lester, Johnson, Sanchez, Wainwright, Haren, Greinke, and Jiminez. And the fact that a lot of people thinks he's overpaid makes me think he's really underrated. Wait, what? Are you drunk? PLEASEEEEEEE tell me you're drunk. Then I can let go of this. If you're really being serious then suicide is my only alternative [and when I say that I mean for me, not you]. I just can't accept this. You did not just compare Edwin Jackson to the likes of Lester, Johnson, Wainwright, Haren, Greinke and Ubaldo. You just didn't. Or at least you didn't mean to.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 11:44 AM) It's hard to gauge anything without our two best big men. This seems to be a popular response whenever somebody questions the legitimacy of the Bulls being actual contenders. And I can agree to a certain extent. But honestly, even if healthy, our we any better than the Utah Jazz of the last four years? Rose is Deron. Boozer is, well, Boozer. Noah is Millsap. Then they've had quality players in Okur, AK47, Brewer and Korver. Yet they've never been able to hang with the big boys. Be it the Spurs or the Lakers. We need another impact player to contend with the likes of the Heat, Celtics and probably the Magic. I think it's 50/50 if we even played a team like the Hawks. IMO, there's a mammoth difference between winning 50-55 games and being a true title contender.

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 02:37 PM) Hell yea. I agree about his home/road splits and how he's better at home. He still puts up good numbers and I'm the only one out of all my friends that thinks he's a good pitcher. I feel that a lot of people gotta put down the Haterade on Vargas. I don't feel Vargas warrants the underrated tag. But he's definitely a quality #4ish type starter. I think he'd be exposed if he didn't have the luxury of pitching at Safeco. But he is where he is. Off-topic, could any human being on earth handle that girl in your avatar? I don't think I could last 5 minutes with that ass. Damn.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 02:30 PM) Wonder if they'd have gambled on trying him as a starter? Doubt it. The A's are not exactly lacking in the SP department. Just more B.S. from that pathetic site.

Sureeeeeee. And why the f*** would the A's be a possible destination when they already have a premier closer in Andrew Bailey, who's dirt cheap and not eligible for FA until 2015?

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 02:23 PM) Probably just fluff, but in the off-chance it's not, I'm happy either way. It's definitely fluff. Guys like Peavy and Beckham are going to have to prove it this year. I don't care what Coop, Ozzie say or about how good certain guys look in Camp Cora.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 01:36 PM) Coincidence or not Jayson Stark published his own underrated team: That all-underrated team: 1B Dunn 2B Kinsler SS Castro 3B Zimmerman LF Braun CF McCutchen RF Cuddyer C Ruiz SP Johnson Bullpen Soria/Adams LINKY: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...&id=6044419 Definitely a coincidence. And kinda spooky. I just thought to make this thread a couple days ago when I was watching the MLB Network. But I do feel justified, not that I needed justification, that Starks has 3 of my top 5 guys on his list. Very good calls on Ruiz and Adams on his part. Castro? I don't think so.

Guys, this wasn't supposed to be a debate. These are MY top 5 underrated players in the game. Underrated to me is guys who are relatively unrecognized or that don't get the attention that other players do even though their production warrants it. Players that fit that description are generally from small market teams. Teams that unless you have the Extra Innings package you don't get to see unless they happen to be playing your favorite team. And how the hell is Edwin Jackson underrated? Did you mean overpaid?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 08:36 AM) Thing is, we trade him right now and any World Series chance we have goes right out the window. Personally, I'll take the 2 years of Danks+the draft picks over the alternative at the moment. I agree. I don't want to trade him now. Though we could net a pretty nice haul with him being under club control for two years. But I think you seriously have to consider dealing him next off-season if a long-term deal can't be worked out. I don't want the draft picks. I don't trust the Sox to properly utilize them anyway. But we have proven that we have the ability to raid other teams farm systems and come away with some pretty nice talent.

Was watching MLB Network yesterday and they were talking about some of the most underrated or under the radar players in the game. So who you guys got? Name 5 and only 5. Any position, including relievers, qualifies. Here's my top 5: 5: Josh Johnson. Yes, we know about Halladay, Lincecum, Sabathia, ect. We hear about those guys every day. But JJ just doesn't get anywhere near the pub that his sick performance warrants. How good is this guy? 33-12, 2.94 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, 8.5 K/9, 2.5 BB/9, 3.41 K/BB. These are the numbers Johnson has sported the last three years. The verdict: Dude is sick. 4: Ryan Zimmerman. Evan Longoria, who I love, has pretty much become the most popular and well-known 3rd baseman over the last few years. And he certainly deserves all the acclaim. But there's a guy in Washington by the name of Zimmerman who's every bit as good and gets nowhere near the pub. Over the last two years, Zimmerman has been an elite-level 14 WAR. That's a mere second behind Longoria [14.2] for all 3B and third overall in all of baseball. He's arguably the best defensive player at his position and gives you a near .900 OPS to boot. 3: Brian McCann. Like with Longoria/Zimmerman, Joe Mauer is the more well known [and 'hot as hell' guy according to most females that I know that know of him]. But you could replace McCann with Mauer and not lose much, if anything, at all. McCann has put up a slash line of .290/.361/.496/.856 the last five years. He's been a 23 WAR replacement level player during those five years [only Mauer at 28 WAR has been worth more]. Not bad value to get a f***ing catcher of this caliber in the SECOND round of the draft. Man can the Braves f***ing scout. 2: Shin-soo Choo. White Sox fans should know how good this guys is as much as anybody. A slash line of .302/.397/.500/.897 the last three years. He's a very good defensive RF and has been worth 10.6 WAR replacement the last two years. That's second in baseball only behind Ben Zobrist [11.5] for right fielders. 1: Joakim Soria. Yes, the undisputed, IMO, most underrated player in baseball. Ask any non-hardcore or even semi-hardcore fan who Soria is and most won't have a clue of whom you're talking about. You want some numbers? How about a 1.84 ERA, 1.005 WHIP, 10.0 K/9, 2.5 BB/9, 4.04 K/BB the last three years. He's recorded 115 saves during those same three years for a team that routinely struggles to hit the 70-win mark. Outside of you know who, and it's just barely, there hasn't been a better closer in the sport than Mr. Soria.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 08:12 AM) http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz...rm_deal/4005222 This, people, is why some have been advocating trading Danks.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 12:53 AM) I'd say he is quite good at baseball, just not good enough. No power and K's at a rate that would make Adam Dunn point and laugh. He sucks. Never understood the hype to begin with.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 07:25 AM) I don't think the contract is really that bad. Other teams won't trade for him, but I think that has more to do with the uncertainty of the collective bargaining agreement and what the cap rules could be moving forward as opposed to a guy who is just vastly overpaid. If the same rules were guaranteed to be in effect the next 4 or 5 years, I don't think the Bulls would have a hard time finding a taker. Don't think anybody ever said he was a scrub. But when the 7th overall pick in the draft peaks in his third year, there's going to be criticism. Not to mention his current contract that has him overpaid in money and years. Which goes back to that career 2007 season. He's just never become what many thought he could be.

Reds sign Cueto to a 4-year, 27 million dollar deal. Covering all of his arbitration years and one FA year. Not a bad move at all for the Reds. Cueto is one of those guys with tantalizing upside. If he ever fully realizes it, this could be a steal for the Reds. As they'll save a lot of change and get a FA year out of him for below market value. Even if he stays the exact same pitcher he is right now it will be a good move.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 20, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) We appear to be a 50 win team with out one of our all star big men. I agree that we aren't going to get Melo but you need to slow down on declaring the ceiling of this team the ECF. You know I respect your opinion at all times. But I see no scenario outside of Rose going '89 MJ that we could beat a healthy Celtics or Heat team.

QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Jan 20, 2011 -> 05:58 PM) I still think KW gives Eric Chavez a shot to be our starting third baseman.

There's not a damn thing we could offer Denver outside of Noah and Rose. This is not even worth wasting a half a second over. We have no draft picks, young players [and when I say young players I mean impact young players] to offer, and no expiring contracts. We are what we are for now. 50-win team who's absolute ceiling is the ECF's.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 20, 2011 -> 05:43 PM) What's the harm is saying he still has a shot to play? Why do you just hand 3B on a team trying to win to a rookie with very little experience? If Teahen hasn't made himself better prior to the beginning of the season, he's going to have a hard time getting playing time. Competition is good for everyone involved. If it puts too much pressure on Morel and he can't perform well in spring training, than he wasn't going to do much as the starter anyway. There's really nothing to get bent out of shape here. If Teahen is a better player than Morel in spring training, he'll most likely play. If he's not he won't play. Odds are he's not. I just get annoyed with the 'slap in the face' comment by Ozzie. Like Teahen is some proven player that just had a down year.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 20, 2011 -> 05:35 PM) I don't think this means Teahen is the starter. It would be a slap in the face to the guy you just extended for 3 years to tell him he has no shot at starting. I think they will break camp with Morel at 3rd because he earns it over Teahen, but Teahen will get every shot to win the job. Teahen could be one motivated mofo right now. Just because KW and the front office f***ed up with that ridiculous extension doesn't mean Teahen is special and deserves the benefit of the doubt. Unless he hits .800 in spring training he should not be the the opening day 3B.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 20, 2011 -> 05:29 PM) There is always the slight possibility he's improved both offensively and defensively. If he's the same player, he isn't going to play much. Teahen only started 49 games at 3B last year. But he was AWFUL. He's been below replacement level for the last 4 years. I don't know how one could expect him to suddenly get better over one offseason.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 20, 2011 -> 05:18 PM) If Teahen is better than Morel, the job is his. I believe Teahen sucks, but I don't think what Ozzie said is wrong. Competition is a good thing. So how do you supplement a non-strikeout staff? Start a TERRIBLE defensive 3B when you already have arguably the worst defensive player in baseball in RF. QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 20, 2011 -> 05:22 PM) Geez, my bad. I didn't realize you were purposly trying to spread the conversation over multiple threads. Can I start another thread for Hudson vs. Jackson too? You don't want to do that. I will unleash more fury. I still can't get over that s***.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 19, 2011 -> 07:21 PM) That is awesome. Please don't tell me you think we've got a shot at 'Melo? Heed the words of J4L: We WILL NOT acquire a superstar through a trade or FA! 2000 and last year was proof positive of this as far as FA goes. And Kobe, Gasol and KG were proof positive of this on the trade front. God help this franchise if we hadn't LUCKED out with a capital L in winning the lottery and drafting Rose.

QUOTE (kevo880 @ Jan 19, 2011 -> 06:28 PM) The only way Peavy will miss more than a month of the season is if he gets hurt again. I know I shouldn't expect but I think he's going to be ready to start the season, regardless of what has been said. How can you say that so definitely? Because of a couple of reports from Cooper saying Jake is 'ahead of schedule' and 'on track'? Used to hear that all the time with Wood and Prior. Not saying Peavy is at that level of injury risk yet. But he's getting there. Just hope for the best but expect something in the middle is my philosophy.