Jordan4life_2007

QUOTE(Wanne @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 04:25 PM) Liriano is the big if. If he comes back...MAYBE. If not the only good SP the Twins have is Johan. How they've gotten by with Silva, Boofer and Radke's batting practice tosses is beyond me. Radke has been one of the best pitchers in baseball since the end of May.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 02:40 PM) If you cant take it anymore there are 20+ teams that need more fans. Good luck. Wow, now I see what guys like Fathom and Milk go through (although I'm not even in the same galaxy as them when it comes to being pessimistic). So I guess if you as a fan display anything short of blind homerism and complete butt-kissing you're not really a fan. I'm not whitesoxfan101. I don't create threads like these after every loss. This is the first one I've made all year long. I've sat back just like everybody and said to myself "It's all good. This team is too talented. We're gonna get going at some point." It's August 21 now. How much longer do we have to wait? How much longer are we gonna have to wait for atleast 3 of our starters to get goin' at the same time? I'm not even gonna get greedy. I've given up hope on the rotation as a whole getting hot. Just 3 guys would satisfy me. When is this team gonna play baseball like we all know they're capable? I think Kenny Williams said it best: at some point, you might have to accept the fact that you are what you are. After a certain point, it becomes a trend, not a fluke. Now, of course, I'm not giving up on the season. That would be pretty stupid and foolish. And, yes, I still think we're capable of playing much better baseball. But time is running out. It's not May or June anymore. The Tigers are struggling, yet we haven't gained a single game on them since we swept them. The Twins are showing no signs of slowing down. The Yankees are looking stronger and stronger everyday. The A's are something like 25-11 since the break. What about us? What's to really like about this team at the moment? Other than the offense, of course.

The Tigers would have to do a lot more than fade for them to not atleast get the WC. More like collapse.

I'll never be happy losing 2 of 3 to anybody. But when you consider we lost to Boof Bonser on Friday, I guess you can say it's a positive that we didn't get swept. I do feel good about this upcoming series with the Tigers. For whatever reason, we have their number. And they're playing worse than we are of late. Just eats me up that we could be 3 1/2 out with a decent chance to actually overtake them if we hadn't laid two eggs against the Royals and lost a very winnable game on Friday.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 12:39 AM) Man this year is going by fast. Just yesterday it seemed Boone Logan was the talk of spring training. That was fool's gold, though, thinking he'd be a bullpen standout this season. We needed more than Boone. He's been mowin' 'em down for Charlotte. Check out his numbers against lefties: BAA 1.89, OBP .231, SLG .297, OPS 5.28, K/9 13.50 Who knows, maybe will see something similiar to how Brandon's season went last year. He struggled his first couple times up, went back down to AAA to make some adjustments, then came back up a new pitcher. Boone clearly wasn't ready for the show in April/May. Maybe he's ready now.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 09:55 PM) I don't get it, either. How the hell could a guy with 1 1/2 pitches start? And didn't he "learn" to pitch in relief last year? It's more like he needs to re-learn how to pitch in relief. He's been brutal this month. Awful.

QUOTE(CYGarland @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:12 PM) If Garcia hadn't lost 5 mph off his fastball, and Buehrle hadn't imploded these last 2 months, we wouldn't even be that down on Vazquez. He was brought in to be the 5th starter, and has actually performed up to those expectations. Problem is, his high contract, and subpar seasons by Buehrle and Garcia make him the scapegoat. Its unfortunate, but true. Now I'm not making excuses for Vazquez, he's been very frustrating to watch, but Garcia and Buehrle haven't been much better....... That being said, we need at least 1 of those guys to turn it on down the stretch, if were going to make the playoffs. Now I know Burhele has been better of late, but he hasn't been exactly lights out...... You're nuts if you think Javy was brought in simply to be a 5th starter. They could've kept Duque if that's all they wanted. We'd still have Chris Young, too.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 09:35 PM) The game Vazquez went 8 vrs the Blue Jays and struck out 13 and allowed 2 hits must have been a fluke. Before and after that game he implodes everytime. But, wanting McCarthy might not be the answer either. It seems Cotts and McCarthy give up a homer every relief appearance they make anymore. McCarthy is no longer an option as far as the rotation goes. Even if Ozzie wanted to make the move, it's too late now. The season would be damn near over by the time Brandon was stretched out enough to start.

Boone Logan without a doubt. I want to see how he does a second time around. He's been really, really good since a rocky start down at Charlotte. God knows we could use another quality lefty right now.

QUOTE(cgaudin @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:30 PM) Can't argue that Podsednik is no longer a catalyst, but it's not entirely his fault. The offense is designed to be a power offense not a "small ball" one. To tell you the truth, it was Anderson who effectively lost the ballgame with that one idiotic throw to third, along with a few taters left over the plate by "Half-game" Vasquez once again. That's just today. This type of stuff has been going on all year. As I said in my original post, this team has done one thing well this year -- hit.

QUOTE(cgaudin @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:05 PM) Oh my God! The sky is falling. The End of the World is upon us! The Sox missed the playoffs!....C'mon, people. RE-freakin'-lax! It was Johan Santana in HIS ballpark today, not to mention we gave them extra outs. I didn't expect a win under any circumstance. The Sox outfield is poorly coached, plain and simple. Had Anderson hit the cutoff man, the Sox would have still been in the ballgame. Had the ball been thrown to second base, the infield would not have been pulled in for the subsequent hitter, and it would have been a routine double play for Uribe. These are the growing pains of an immature center fielder, the learning curve, if you will. Nevertheless, 3 runs is not usually going to do it with this pitching staff anyway. The Sox offense has struggled against good pitching. That's a statistical fact. If the Sox make the playoffs, don't expect they will advance, cause there's NO WAY they will with the way this offense is constructed. If there's no long balls, we usually lose. I don't find that to be a GREAT offense, powerful yes, but not great. One, I hate the attitude that since it's Santana we should automatically accept defeat. Two, we've destroyed plenty of good pitching this year. The offense is indeed great. It would be even better if Podsednik would show some semblance of an actual professional ball player.

QUOTE(rafacosta @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 06:20 PM) Even with that...we lead the WC by one game. We led the WC by 6 games at the break. We led the WC by 3 games just a few days ago. We're 16-21 since being a season high 27 games over .500. The Twins have been playing at an unreal level for 3 months now -- even without Liriano. I'm just lookin' at the big picture.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 04:58 PM) There is nothing wrong with expecting greatness. I hope, and imagine, that the players all expect greatness. But just because you don't get there doesn't mean you aren't, or can't be, a good team. And we aren't "bad" in so many aspects this year. We are 6th in starters ERA, 9th in relievers ERA, though we know it is better than that now that a few guys are out of there. 5th in fielding pct. 3 in DER. And 1st in offense. We are an average pitching staff this year, bad by standards last year, but it's not like we are among the worst in the league. The entire AL West is in the top 5 in pitching, because they get to face terrible offenses so much. What about things like bunting, holding runners, hitting the cut-off man and running the bases? These are musts if you want to win in the playoffs.

Happy B-day to a fine poster.

QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 05:02 PM) We didn't hit our stride until the final 5 games of the season last year. Seeing as how we have 39 games left, I am not too worried yet. If we lose 3 of 4 or all 4 in Detroit then I will start to worry. There's still a lot of time left and if the season ended today, we would be in the playoffs. The two teams behind us? One of them lost the best pitcher in the AL for the rest of the season. The other team has been dominated three games in a row at home to the Yankees whom we beat 2 of 3 just over a week ago. Step off the ledge.. Problem is that we've lost ground to the Twins since they lost Liriano. I agree with you about the Red Sox. They've actually got more problems than we do.

Check out what Dave Dombrowski said about Neifi Perez. I'm actually in a much better mood after reading this.

The Dodgers are takin' the NL.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 04:37 PM) Who is that much better than us? The Tigers? We've beaten up on them. The Yanks? We've been alright against them. Fairly even matchup. Would be a tough series either way. We are one of the best teams in the league against teams that are .500 or better. Might even be the best. How couldn't you be optimistic about that. The expectations are just too much out of wack. Because we upgraded on paper, it seems like everybody thought we'd be much better record wise and performance wise. Last year was a special year. This year we haven't been quite as good, but we're only 3 games behind last year's pace. It's difficult to win 100+ games in this league. You're right. I guess I do forget sometimes that the other contenders in the AL are far from perfect. Do I expect too much? Maybe. But why not? For years I've been content with the Sox just being competitive and having a chance to get to the playoffs. Is it wrong for me to want more now? I don't think so. Like I said earlier, it just bothers me that we've been so bad in so many different aspects this year. Thank god for the offense.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 04:27 PM) I would feel that we would have just as good a shot of winning as anybody else. I wish I could be like you. LOL. I'm normally pretty optimistic.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 04:20 PM) So are we just one of the luckiest teams in baseball to be where we are? We are only 3 games behind where we were at this time last year. The Twins, Sox and Tigers are all playing about 2 games better than their numbers would suggest they should play. I see a lot of people saying that this team is like 2004 and those years. In 2004 through 122 games in the season, we were 60-62. Right now we are 73-50. In 2003 we were 63-59. Despite Detroit playing out of their minds this year, we are only 5 games back in the loss column. So, you are telling me the difference between a team that "simply isn't that good" and one that is pretty awesome in the Tigers is only 5 games? But I respect your opinion. You make it without whining everytime something goes wrong. I disagree, but respect the fact that you don't make your feelings known one way or the other after every good or bad thing that happens. Nonetheless, I can think of 10 or 11 teams in the AL that would like to suck as much as we do. Read my response to CWSGUY. I should've been a little more clearer. And let me make this known. I'm in no way giving up on the season. Nowhere in my original post did I say the season was over. I just don't like what I'm seeing right now. Be honest Jphat, if the season ended today, would you feel good about our chances in the playoffs? I certainly don't. I know there's still 39 games to go. You just wonder if this team is ever gonna put it all together. Time is running out.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 04:12 PM) That's where you're wrong. 4.80 3.78 5.13 4.73 4.87 If I would've told you that halfway through August, these would be the five ERAs of our starting staff, first off, you probably would've laughed at me, and second, you probably would have thought if what I said was true, that the Sox would be, at best, a .500 team battling for third or fourth place in the AL Central. Want to know what I've taken from these past two series'? a.) We play to our competition. b.) We don't match up well with Minnesota; especially in that POS dome up north. I actually feel extremely confident going into this series with Detroit. The guys will be amped, we've taken it to Detroit this year, and we're coming off of two "letdown" series'. I believe the Sox have a very good shot to take three of four. And if that happens, everyone will be feelin' good again, just like it's been all year long with this friggin' frustrating team. I credit the fact that we're still up 1 game in the WC to our offense. They've been amazing all year long. I just really question how much longer we can hold on with the pitching being so shaky. I'll be satisfied if we can just get 3 of our 5 guys goin' right now. Jon Garland seems up to the task. Buehrle is slowly gettin' back to being Buehrle. Jose, other than that start against Detroit, hasn't been exactly stellar. I'm not even gonna get into Freddy and Javy. And let me clarify my statement of this team not being that good. What I really mean to say is this isn't a good 'baseball' team. If that makes sense. We're talented beyond comprehension. We can mash with anybody. We just don't do the things well that make up a good baseball team. The Twins play good baseball. They're not that talented. They certainly can't mash. But they can play baseball. I hope that makes sense.

As most people in here know, I've been one of the more optimistic posters on this site all year long. No matter what the current situation has been at the time, I've always taken the glass is half full stance with this team. Now, with just 39 games to go, I've come to a pretty simple conclusion: this team simply isn't that good. We've waited all year for this team to hit its "rhythm," as Hawk likes to so often say. Well, with September right around the corner, this team still hasn't put it all together yet. At some point you have to realize what you are: a very good offensive team that can outslug just about anybody, yet a poorly coached team with an average at best pitching staff, shaky defense and terrible fundamentals all around -- especially when it comes to things like bunting, hitting the damn cut-off man, holding runners and baserunning. This team has done one thing well all year -- hit. That's it. They've been below average to bad in every other aspect of baseball. They haven't pitched. They haven't catched. They can't bunt. They can't hit a cut-off man. They can't run the bases (A lot of this is Joey Cora. I'll get to him in a second). Everything we excelled at just one year ago, we've been brutal at this year. This team has been lackadaisical, lazy and, for the most part, has lacked focus. We all knew coming into this year that we were gonna be the hunted. Everybody was gonna be comin' for us. How have we responded? Very poorly. It's like this team thinks it's entitled to something because of what they accomplished last year. Take this last series with the Twins for example. The Twins have treated this series like it's the playoffs. All their guys were ready and focused. Our guys? Well, I heard Joe Crede say this series isn't that big a deal. Not that big a deal? Are you an idiot? Mark Buehrle is another guy who brushed this series off as if it wasn't much to get excited over. Hello!? It's not May! There should be a little more sense of urgency with just a little over a month left to go in the season -- atleast you would think. I will break down my biggest problems with this team: Kenny Williams: I love the guy. He put together a World Series championship team. For that, I will forever be greatful. He without a doubt upgraded the offense and bench. However, Kenny really blew it with the Vazquez trade. I questioned it all the way back in December. You had a guy in Brandon McCarthy who was more than ready and capable to step into the rotation. Yet he trades a top 20 prospect and a decent middle reliever (I don't care about Duque) for a guy that had been known around the league as an underachieving headcase, who had already been traded twice in two years. And what really makes me mad is with Javy basically demanding to be traded, the D-Backs HAD to move him. What I'm saying is, we didn't have to give up as much as we did. Atleast that's the way I see it. The D-backs were the ones being held hostage here. Yet we overpaid. My only other legitimate beef with Kenny is the inability to find a decent backup OF. Mainly a guy that can play CF. I don't even have to get into that. We all know how bad Mack is in center. Ozzie and the coaching staff: Like with Kenny, I'll forever be in debt to Ozzie. He managed our White Sox to a World Series championship. However, he hasn't done as good of job this year. If you're gonna give a guy all the credit when you win, you have to give him atleast some of the blame, not much, but some of it when you underachieve. Why is this team so bad right now as far as fundamentals go? Isn't this what Ozzie Guillen teams are supposed to be known for? Also, he hasn't handled the pitching staff well at all. I had no problem with him leaving guys in there earlier in the year when they were struggling. Ozzie has faith in his guys. I've got no problem with that. But it's August now. It's time to stop messing around with these guys. If they don't have it -- get them outta there. Joey Cora in particular has gotten on my nerves. This guy is like a kid in a candy store when it comes to waving guys home -- even when they have no chance. You have to realize who the heck is running at the time. This isn't a speed team. You have to use a little more caution when waving guys in. Don Cooper was praised up-and-down for the job he did with last year's staff. He deserved every bit of that praise. Now, he must get some of the blame for what's happened this year. Every single one of our starters is having a worse year than last year. How the hell does that happen? He's done a great job with Matt Thornton. You gotta give him that. Why has Neal Cotts been so brutal? I've just never seen so many guys off a team that won it all the year before struggle like this. Can this all be blamed on Coop? Of course not. But like I said with Ozzie: if you're gonna give a guy all the credit when things go well, you gotta take some of the blame when they don't. Starting pitching: What is there to say? They've been the single biggest dissapointment on this team. Other than Burhele and to a lesser extent Garland, nobody can hold a damn runner. We can't make the big pitch. We can't pitch over defensive mistakes. We can't finish off guys with two strikes. It goes on and on. Defense: Nowhere near as good as last year. We've looked lazy and lackadaisical in the field. That's unacceptable for a team that was so good defensively a year ago. Fundamentals: Brutal. Pathetic. Like I said, we can't bunt, run the bases or hit a damn cut-off man. Scott Podsednik: I'm one of the few Podsednik supporters around here. But he has to be called out. Is this the same guy from a year ago? I have no idea what his problem is. The only thing he's done well this year is hit with RISP. He's a liability out there if he not gonna utilize his speed. Neal Cotts: Didn't we trade Damaso Marte? What the hell is he still doing here? Anyway, I'm gonna stop now. I just had to let this out. I've been holding it in for a while. Sorry about the length. I just had a lot to say. Oh, and it's nice to see that we're taking advantage of the Tigers' slump.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 03:32 AM) Dont leave me out. I know our names our similar but im not associated with his hating and Ive always backed Garland Yeah, you supported him, too. I think Balta was another one. Everybody else was like "f*** Jon! He was a fluke! Judy's back! Trade him! Overpaid!."

We've got to find a way to win this game. I'm sick of always saying "Oh well. It's Santana. It's OK that he keeps raping us."

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 19, 2006 -> 10:51 PM) The ace of this staff wants an apology from all the haters, JGINAA promoters, and people who call him a lazy ass Cali boy who doesn't care about results. I am wrong a lot, but sticking with Jon is one of the few things I might have got right, kudos Garland!! LOL. You were hating on him hard when he was struggling. The only people around here that stuck with him were me, Jason, and Dbaho.