Soxbadger

Tolzien may be the next starter for GB. And with McCown playing well it seems like the Bears are more willing to "rest" Cutler.

Gruden has never seen that play even though the Bears ran it early. It is a clever design.

http://www.minyanville.com/sectors/consume...&from=yahoo And people wonder why I keep my slim figure.

Ive never been so happy about a coaching change in my life. I know I had some fights with people about why the loss of Bielema was a good thing for Wisconsin, but Andersen has exceeded all of my expectations. Here is a video of him at practice: http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/wisconsin-...t-for-halloween

Im not sure why you are piling on Jenks. He was honest, he thinks that people should get some support but he doesnt want the govt just throwing money around if people arent going to be responsible with their health. Thats not an outlandish position. In fact maybe things would work better if people tried to flesh out ideas instead of harping on hypocrisy.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 03:10 PM) Can we not have both? Can't we have a system where everybody gets basic coverage, but those with means can get better coverage. I have no problem with that. Im not saying that everyone has to have equal coverage. I am saying that I believe everyone deserves to have a basic minimum coverage and then if you want to spend more, well that is your money, you can do what you want.

/points up to Illinilaw See now there is someone who actually wants to discuss the real world. But before we can get to that discussion, we first have to determine, do we really want a system where everyone gets covered? Or do we prefer a system where the wealthy/lucky have an advantage? That is what Im trying to get to the bottom of when I talk with people like Jenks/Y2hh. Do they even really want a system where all people are covered? They act like its a crazy utopian idea, akin to eradicating all sickness. I think its a possibility.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 02:38 PM) Exactly how I felt. If this was a theoretical discussion, I think anyone would be hard pressed to not want said utopia. Yes, it would be amazing to live in a world where nobody cares about profit, and where sickness/disease are eradicated...and that everyone is nice to everyone, and uses whatever skills they have for the betterment of all mankind. That's not much of a discussion, however...because there is no reason to NOT want that. Once again, instead of actually address the REAL WORLD topic, you want to confuse everyone. This is a thread about healthcare in the United States. The question is simply, do you think that everyone in the United States deserves a basic level of healthcare. Thats not "Can we eradicate disease" thats not "can we eliminate all profit", "should people be nice" its just a simple yes or no question. If you dont think that is an important question to ask in this thread, I dont know what is.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 02:27 PM) The issue is we were having a discussion about the real world, you interjected with a theoretical opinion and Y2HH and I continue to debate things that are real. That's fine if you want to have a theoretical debate, but his point is the only way to get to your theoretical world is to have massive government intervention, which you stated you don't want. Hence the disconnect here. Well the problem is that without people voluntarily choosing to do the right thing, you need someone else to force them to do it. Which is ultimately why I dont really get involved in these discussions. I dont have a real answer for how you provide everyone with healthcare but at the same time dont create more rules/govt. I understand its hypocritical, which is why instead of focusing on that, I want to try and find out if there is a baseline. If 99% of Americans felt that "everyone should get basic medical care" I have a lot less issue with govt trying to help make that happen. Now I understand that this can ultimately lead to the scenario in "Brave New World" but these are the type of things I struggle with. Which is why once again, I really only started off commenting about the fact that 1) insurance executives are making a lot of money and 2) that for the most part is not considered profit. QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 02:28 PM) While part of the calculation, you are claiming that publicly traded insurance companies are artificially lowering their profit margins by paying out to executives...and again, no, that's just not the case. Investors wouldn't accept that, as it's their money, and they have the collective power, not some CEO inflating his salary to "hide profits". That's just laughable. I actually never claimed any of that. What I did do, was point out facts: 1) CEO compensation is a cost. 2) CEO's of insurance companies have been compensated very highly. 3) Profit is what is left over after revenue minus expenses. 4) A company can manipulate profit. I never said that the insurance companies were "hiding" or doing anything. I simply pointed out actual facts. Because you dont want to really address the issue, you keep trying to obscure the argument.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 02:22 PM) IMO your concern of unfair justice doesn't present itself in this area of the law. The best of the best plaintiffs' attorneys get paid zero dollars until they obtain something for their client. And they can (and do) go up against the best of the best defense lawyers who get paid a set rate, regardless of the money involved. Id agree. Of all the areas Med Mal is probably one that has the most even battles between attorneys.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) Because people erroneously think insurance companies are a massive for profit business, and it's not. The margins are quite thin in the medical landscape. Profit margins for drug companies and land ownership that lease to hospitals, however, are astoundingly high (20-40% in most cases), as compared to the margins of 3-5% for insurance companies. And again, profits are NOT hidden simply by paying out lavish salaries and bonuses to executives. Most of these are publicly traded companies, and investors don't take kindly to profits being drained away by executives as you're claiming. Just doesn't happen to that extent, nor for the reasons you claim. I never said that other areas dont make more profit. I merely pointed out that when you count profit, you have already deducted the massive CEO salaries (thats a fact). Im not sure what the rest of it has to do with anything.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 02:15 PM) *shakes head in massive confusion* You asked me a theoretical question about whether lawyers/drs should make profit. I gave you a theoretical answer. Then y2hh started to make it some sort of large point about how I want govt intervention. It was a massive leap on his part and has caused much confusion. If he simply would have stuck to the original point: Insurance companies are making considerable money and paying their executives a lot of money. No one would be confused. But y2hh is now trying to change the subject into something completely different because he doesnt want to address the actual question: Do you think its okay for insurance executives to make millions of dollars while we have some people in the US who cant afford even basic health care? Its not about the govt, its about what you as a human think.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) It's you that doesn't understand how profit margin works. No I actually do understand how they work. You just have yet to articulate why "profit margin" actually matters. So please, explain to stupid old me, why it matters if the insurance company has a "low profit margin" when the insurance market is dominated by an oligarchy. Thanks for playing.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 02:04 PM) If a government doesn't enforce it, the free market enforces it. That means profit. What you're saying is akin to being a little bit pregnant. Either you want something to govern with all power, or you don't. There is no in between. If it's utopia you want, why bother having a conversation? That's a dream world, and it's not happening, ever...so stop wasting everyones time by injecting it into the real world conversation we're having. Because I want people to choose for themselves to make less money so that everyone gets more. That is what I want. I dont want the govt to tell you what the right thing is to do, I want you to look deep inside and realize what the right thing is to do. I want a free market. You dont. Are you okay with no immigration rules, no minimum wage, no labor laws? No. Am I? Yes. Why bother having the conversation? Because I hope that I can make people think for themselves. Instead of just parroting what they read/see. Because Im tired of the lies and deceit from people who are all about themselves and only want more money/power whatever. Why talk about utopia? Because it never hurts to aim for the stars. Its a lot more interesting than the nonsense hide the ball arguments that most people are accustomed to.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 02:01 PM) They're making millions because the slice of the pie medical care covers is astoundingly massive. But their profit margins are still very low. Do you understand "profit margin" is a meaningless term if I am sticking "hundreds of millions of dollars of compensation" into the cost? Profit is Revenue minus expenses. Thus if I put things like "trip for CEOs to Hawaii" into expenses, I made less profit.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 01:56 PM) Then stop asking for rules to regulate everyones pay/profit margin, how money is distributed, etc. Da fuq? You JUST said that you think these should all be zero profit industries. Then you pretend you want no rules and restrictions? Yes, I know what Orwellian means, and it's exactly what you want, only you think you don't. You don't hate regulations/restrictions, you love them. That's exactly what you've been asking for here, over and over. I think you've lost it, and/or have confused yourself at this point. Where did I say that the govt should regulate it? I said "This is what I think". Just because I believe that the world should be better, doesnt mean I think that the govt should force it upon people. Those are 2 different issues, perhaps you have confused yourself. Unless you can find where I said "The govt should enforce this". Prove me wrong.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 01:46 PM) I don't really see that as a concern in the PI/Med Mal/WD arena that we're talking about. You were the one that asked if attorneys should make profit. I answered that in no area should they make profit. In a better world the reason people become lawyers/drs is to use their abilities to help others, not to make money. My original response was to y2hh because he said insurance companies dont make a lot of profit, and I just happen to have a little bit of insight into how you can make a lot of money, but show very little profit. So I wanted to make sure it was clear that there are plenty of people in the insurance game making millions upon millions.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 01:41 PM) But despite these things, we HAVE improved human existence. A LOT. Sure things have improved. And I can make them better. Good enough may be okay for people like you, but its not for me. QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 01:42 PM) Why don't you just go all the way and say you want to live in Orwellian world. No thanks. Really? Orwellian? Do you even know what that means? Id be pretty much the exact opposite of big brother. I hate regulations/restrictions. I want no rules.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 01:36 PM) Should lawyers and doctors be in a 0 profit game too? They're involved as much as insurance companies. Absolutely Lawyers should make 0 profit. In fact if I really had my way lawyers would be far more regulated and their salaries would be fixed. That way we can ensure that everyone actually gets justice, not that one side has a lot more money so they have a disproportionate advantage.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 05:57 PM) Health insurance is also a very low profit margin business, contrary to popular belief. And interestingly I believe that it should be a 0 profit business. You can still have millionaire CEO's etc, they just dont get extra millions of profit on top of it. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/201...past-16-million I just have a fundamental problem with people getting rich off of other peoples sickness. I believe that we should live in a world where people can be guaranteed a basic level of medical treatment and not have to worry about being broke because of it. Call it rose colored glass optimism, but what is the point of all this if we arent going to actually improve the human existence?

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 01:26 AM) Come on now. Im not sure why thats far fetched. I never said theyd beat FSU, Bama etc, but they certainly would give them a game.

Calling time out with none left?

I loved high school. I loved college. I loved law school. I love now. Well I actually never liked school, but I did love all of the shenanigans school allowed me to get into. The worst part was I always knew Id be able to get away with more before I was 18, so most of my completely outrageous stories occurred before I was even in HS. I kind of live a college life to this day. The only difference is I show up to work every day. Back in college I never went, I didnt even wake up before 3pm.

They are notoriously the weakest voting block, of course it makes sense. Politicians are in the business of being re-elected, not fixing problems.

Well NBA season means its time to discuss the NBA draft: http://flapship.com/2014-nba-draft-preview-prepare-for-hype/ Zoom actually knows things about basketball so you should read it.