Soxbadger

How can a KU fan talk s*** about Weber? Weber took his team to the championship game... Self continues to stroke his own ego and say how great his recruits are. But what is ironic, is that Bill Self's KU and Illini teams that went to the Elite 8, both were his first year of coaching. That would mean they were not his recruits. I personally believe that Weber is better coach, and Self is the better recruiter. If I had to take my pick, I would go with the coach, because recruiting is to fickle. As to Gordon, I doubt there was any foul play. Just my guess is Indiana offered making him a state legend, where as in Illinois 50% or more of the people could care less about Illini basketball. Its not Weber's fault, Illinois just is not a great place to recruit to. It really does not have anything unique to offer. Gordon is from Indiana, it would be like a John Clay (RB recruit from the state of Wisconsin) chosing Illinois over Wisconsin. It really just did not make much sense, but from an Illinois standpoint you had to hold onto the dream.

Should be a good year for Wisconsin, have a chance to compete for Big 10 and in the tourney. But this thread is irrelevant until football is over.

There will probably be openings again though. Some teams have a high turn over rate.

No actually my argument is that the scientific community is no where in agreement on steriods. Not to mention you are talking about entirely different drugs from the 1970's to 2006. What specific steriod are you talking about? "Steriods" cover many different drugs, many of them with highly different side effects. It would be like saying all morning sickness drugs cause deformaties. When it was a specific drug, thalidomide. Im not saying that steriods are good, just that their many of their risks are created to prevent younger more impressionable minds from taking them. Steriods are especially risky for people who have not grown fully as screwing with testosterone levels can cause adverse effects. But at the same time, many of the myths associated with steriods are overblown. Every site on Alzado will say "he believed" not that there was any scientific fact to support him.

Magic is a simple explanation. If you are a millionaire, HIV is no longer a death sentence. They have drugs that will combat the disease and allow you to live a relatively healthy normal life. Where as Arnold used steriods and has so far suffered few if any side effects. You see everyone point to WWE people as examples of steriods killing them off, but you rarely see them delve into the fact that many of these wrestlers had other addictions besides steriods which played major roles in their death. The result is, fathom's "when they start dropping dead at 40-50" is nothing more than unsubstantiated myths. Just like the first Ultimate Warrior died, just like every other unproven myth. I doubt that Bonds dies any earlier than most of the other players of his age group. What then?

Yeah seems like win-win for both sides. White Sox get extra revenue for basically nothing and 7-11 gets 243 promotions for 1.5mil. Plus all of the internet, tv, and newspaper talk about this.

Prior to the start of the season I said Auburn was over rated. Now Tubberville can stop worrying about how hard it is to be in the SEC.

And if this turns out true I may have just saved myself from alzheimer's.

Well crooked number I think makes perfect sense and is one of the better expressions in baseball. Definition of crooked; 1. not straight; bending; curved Compare that to 1 which on most score boards is just a straight line. Therefore when a team scores any number but 1 they have placed a number that is not straight aka crooked on the board.

I think Buehrle would be traded not because of talent, but because they are going to be afraid they will lose him in FA. Specifically I believe there are fears about STL.

I think we may trade 2 starters, right now it would appear Jose and Buerhle would be the two guys. My guess is that Williams puts every one of them on the market and trades the ones he can get the most for. I would say that Vaz and Garland are the 2 most likely to stay, followed by B-Mac.

Hell be some where between 10-15. Next year he could be a top 10 qb, but right now he takes to many risks with such a good defense.

The whole argument is if the Sox knew Thomas would do this well would they have traded for Thome. No one is arguing that Thomas did not pose a serious injury risk in the offseason. Not to mention Thomas was not hurt until the All-Star break, he played every single month of the season. He just did not play that well before May, but then again, he has always been a slow starter.

SS2k, I think Konerko would have come back if Thomas came back. I think when Konerko said Thome made the difference he meant it as, "We lost Big Frank, I was not going to come back to the Sox unless there was a player to protect me." Rock, The AL central may be better pitching wise. But Frank Thomas put up almost exactly the same stats against the AL Central as Thome. Therefore it is irrelevant, because Thomas clearly was able to hit good pitching this year. Not to mention you still have not addressed the fact Thome hit in a hitters park where as Thomas hit in a pitchers park. As for Gio and Rowand being garbage, I am not saying that they would have had an impact on the Sox. I am saying that we could have used them to trade. The Konerko thing is entirely speculation, and in my opinion is grasping for straws. I stand by my statement: If the Sox knew that Thome and Thomas would put up the stats they did, the Sox would never have traded for Thome and would have done something different. The Sox took a risk based on the fact they thought Frank would be injured and unable to play. Im not saying it was a bad decision, just that in hindsight it is very hard for me to sit here and say the Sox made the better decisions.

Okay so 8mil to Frank for 1 season, versus over 20mil to Thome for his contract. Still was cheaper to keep Frank. As to my "blind love of Frank", so far no one has brought any statistics to the argument except for me. You rely on: AL Central is better. Yet do not bring the stats to back it up. I actually did the research to show that Thome and Thomas had basically statistically equal seasons. You still have not addressed the talent given up for Thome, as everyone just harps on the money. Thomas would have cost 0 talent. Thome cost, Rowand and Gio. Those 2 could have been used elsewhere. Ill just agree to disagree and not have to deal with your blind hate of Thomas.

Actually if you were a fan back in 2000 you would know that the White Sox had dominating splits in every facet except one, games played during the day. Due to scheduling the White Sox played day games, while the Yankees were given night games. It is much harder to hit in the shadows of Safeco, then to hit at night. ::shrugs:: As to the rest, I think the reason the White Sox did not make the playoffs was because their bullpen was to weak. Great pens can go 7,8,9. If the Sox had that they would have won substantially more games because they could have rested their starters instead of trying to keep going to the well. Anyone that has watched baseball knows that after the pitching load they had last year, the 4 remaining SP's from the Championship team were going to struggle with dead arm. This came into full force this year, but with the lack of depth in the pen, the Sox were forced to just keep doing the same thing. I dont understand why Thomas could get injured at any time, but that Thome is all of a sudden a sure bet not to be injured? Both have almost the same chance of injury, id say Thomas is slightly higher. As to the "arbitration", what do you think Thomas would have gotten in arb? I believe it is based on a 3 year average, in which case you would have had 1 good year, 42 hrs, and 2 sub par years. His arb at most would of been in the 5mil range. No where close to the 10mil people are claiming. And on to the Javy point. Had the Sox not used Gio and Rowand for Thome, they may have been able to trade for Vaz and not give up Young. That would have given the Sox much more flexibility in the OF for 2006 and beyond. Im sorry but there is no way you will convince me that Thome made a significant difference in terms of production to Frank. And as for the Al Central having the best pitching staffs, how come Frank destroyed Twins and Sox? Yet his worst average was against the Angels? Facts do not seem to support this claim.

I dont see the big problem with letting people run as many times as they want. If the person is the best for the job, why should we be denied them just because they only get 8 years?

Jenks looked tired. Last year it was nice to have Hermanson and Jenks. I more ment a great set up man like Spooney, but if the Sox had to take some one elses closer and put him in MR I would not have minded either.

Thomas did well against CWS, Twins, and KC. Did bad against CLE and DET. He absolutely killed the Sox. For comparison, Thome did terrible against Twins. A lot of HR's against. CLE. Did great against DET and KC. To me it seems like much ado about nothing with the AL Central comparison.

I guess your speaking about CWS, because I never referred to you as a dumbass. As to the rest of your argument. 1) AL Central versus AL West, is debatable. Lets look at some stats: Frank: SPLIT AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS Home 244 42 59 6 0 23 57 38 3 47 0 0 .242 .347 .549 .896 Away 222 35 67 5 0 16 57 43 3 34 0 0 .302 .417 .541 .958 Thome: Home 255 57 74 10 0 25 60 54 4 71 0 0 .290 .419 .624 1.043 Away 235 51 67 16 0 17 49 53 2 76 0 0 .285 .414 .570 .984 Frank played in a pitchers park, yet hit more HR there. Although his over all numbers suffered in Oakland. Thome on the other hand hit more HR's at the Cell, a favorable hitters park. We can only speculate what would have happened, but balls were flying out of the Cell, and Frank may have had his share. 2) Rowand. I never said keep Rowand. I said we should have traded for a need, bullpen or OF. We had Konerko and Thomas, those are 2 1b and DH, we did not need to trade for another 1b/Dh. That is basically the last position we had a need. 3) Left handed, yes I think we should have gotten a LH player in LF or CF. For about the same price we could have had a guy like Abreu. 4) Thomas was never offered a contract from the Sox. From history, Tellem and Reisndorf have always gotten a deal done. KW showed that he had no desire to bring back Frank, and there was really no options. Had the door been left open I think Frank would have came back for an A's like offer. 5) We lost because of pitching. The reason we did not have the chips to trade for an elite closer or more pitching was we spent Thome. My argument is that we should have used our talent like Gio and traded for a need. Had we used Gio, Rowand, etc to get a top bullpen guy or a LF/CF we would have had a much better team overall.

Lets not talk in hypotheticals, lets talk facts: (from this site http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/c...-white-sox.html Frank Thomas: 1 year/$0.5M (2006), plus $2.6M in bonuses, incentives So high ball, $3.1 mil. They already had to pay the 3.5mil buy out to let him go, so that is a wash. Total for Thomas, $3.1mil Thome: $22mil over 3 years = $7mil per year. 06: Salary $5.5mil, 07: $7mil, 08: $ 7mil 09, $ 3mil buyout or $10mil. Signing bonus of 2.5mil owed in 06 meaning, 06 salary $8mil. Total Sox owing to Thome: $25mil (if bought out in 2009) $33mil (if kept in 2009) So the Sox paid approximately $4.9mil extra to have Thome on the team this year than Frank. And will pay another $25mil to keep Thome for another 3 years, it is hard to imagine Frank will get 3 years 8mil so that is basically a wash. Thus, the Sox paid more for Thome, and gave up talent. All I am saying is that in hindsight, the type of economic committment they could have given Thomas versus what they gave to Thome, plus having to give up talent, the Sox probably would have kept Thomas if they knew this is the type of season that they would get. But no one knew that, and that is why frank is making 3.1 mil this year. Hindsight is 20/20, but if it was my call I would of stuck with Frank and used my talent to improve LF or the pen.

Rock, How could the Sox not have bought Frank out and then paid him slightly more than the A's? So before you start acting condescending like I am some newbie to the site, perhaps you should take the time to answer me. Y2hh, Ive been here since the site began. Explain how the Sox could not have bought out frank and then brought him back? Or did you forget that was an option? Jenks Heat, Actually I have never spoken on the Thome trade. Frank Thomas is my favorite player, and if I was running the team, I would have brought back Frank. But this is not about being sentimental, this is about a business. The White Sox made a business decision thinking that Thome would be more healthy than Frank. They spent a lot of talent and money on this decision. If you would have showed the Sox those state lines Rock posted, and said that you would get the lower out of Thomas and the higher out of Thome, I doubt they would have traded for Thome. They would have addressed a real need, not DH. You could have gotten a LH for either CF or LF. As for being a noob, how come my registration is from 2002 and yours is from 2004? My guess is y2hh is nothing more than a bandwagon fan.

What about Governator Arnold? Why isnt he dead? In the end, I dont believe the govt has a right to make laws soley to protect ourselves. Bonds never hurt anyone, and even if we take everything about how steriods hurt your body as true, all he ever hurt was himself. We let people drink, and I hate to break it but alcohol is one of the only known toxins that is harmful to every single organ. The only difference is the alcohol lobby has lots of money.

Compare Frank and Jim's salary, then post those stats again. If the Sox keep Frank, they could have traded Gio, Rowand, etc for perhaps a piece that we needed, maybe say bullpen or a LF? Frank would have cost us 0 talent, and a fraction of Thome's salary. Jim was awesome, but he would have had to be exponentially better than Frank for the trade to be worth it. The Sox took a risk that Thome would be healthy and Frank would not be. Frank turned out to be healthy, but that was a risk the Sox were not going to take. Rock on Big Frank.

If Zib runs a sub 4.5 I would be shocked. And Im talking at the combine, not what fluff coachs say. When I see him he seems slow, but thats just my opinion.