Marty34

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) What does Lastings Milledge have to do with anything? People around here were very upset when Lillibridge took his place in April.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 01:52 PM) There's that word again. Wanna rethink that? There's a difference between "saved" and putting the best players on the field. Look at Dunn's track record versus Lillibridge. Dunn was signed because of that track record, if he's on the roster he needs to play.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 01:51 PM) The fact people are stating Lilly would have saved this team is downright laughable. If only Lastings Milledge got more AB's. People around here need to spend more time watching this game.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 01:41 PM) Dunn hit over .200 for one month this entire season. In May he hit .204. Lillbridge hit .265 in August with 6 HR and 14 RBI, while Dunn hit .155 with 1 Hr and 2 RBI. In other words Brent Lillibridge would have had to have gone 0-35 in those extra ABs just to have the same batting average that Dunn did in August. That is also not taking any of the power numbers into consideration. You really think Lillibridge would have gone 0-36 or worse playing in Dunn's spot? Nobody wanted Lillibridge on the roster in April. Now you're saying he's the savior in August. Unbelievable.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 18, 2011 -> 09:46 PM) That logic is astounding. Trade a certainty with a good contract, for a bunch of unknowns, who in all odds won't add up to anything nearly as good as we have. I think you have a future with the Pittsburgh Pirates. You must have Ramirez confused with a Hall of Famer.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 18, 2011 -> 09:44 PM) Of course not, that's silly. But, unlike in the world of fantasy leagues, it's not easy to just get rid or Dunn and Rios. Peavy's not a great concern, seems that he would be the least of our problems in 2012. If we got replacement or above replacement level offensive numbers from Dunn and Rios, we would have been in a decent position to compete even with Beckham falling off a cliff offensively. If nothing else, you're arguing against the decision KW made in 2007, which was to keep Buehrle/Thome/Dye, etc., and move forward instead of tearing that team apart. Are we really worse off than we were heading into 2008? How so? This approach in 2007 would have prevented 2008 from ever happening...and, if Quentin hadn't gotten hurt, you can make a legit argument we could have gone much deeper into the playoffs, especially if we could have bypassed Javy and not gone down to Game 163. 2008 is the start of where we are today. Our reward was 1 post-season win.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 18, 2011 -> 09:40 PM) Why? The guy is on a bargain contract for years. Because he is the rarest of White Sox players these days. He's one you might be able to get something decent in return for.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 18, 2011 -> 09:37 PM) If you are selling Alexei, you aren't looking at 2013, you are looking at 2016. If you keep Alexei it will be longer.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 18, 2011 -> 09:22 PM) This theory on Santos is based on what? A hunch? Having one of the best sliders of any reliever? A consistent mid 90's fastball? The fact that as someone who's only been a pitcher for about 3 years, he's already maxed out his ability? Or you're extrapolating based entirely on his recent blown saves against the Tigers? That he's going to fall apart as a closer eventually, that he's not mentally strong or tough enough? Do you really want Addison Reed as the closer for 2012? And then what happens when we get off to a similar start as 2011 when Thornton was the closer? We just sell off the entire team before mid-season and drive down the attendance to 1.2 million? Is this based on your idea that Reinsdorf was going to get paid for 2 million in attendance no matter what he spends on payroll...even if it was $50-65 million? Too many sliders is my feeling on Santos. I get the feeling you want to keep this team together.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Sep 18, 2011 -> 08:54 PM) Despite his irrational fears about the rotation, I don't think Marty is all that off in his desire to break apart the team, including Alexei. If whoever is GM after this season plans to reduce payroll to where it was or rebuild, he would absolutely have to look at trading Quentin, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, and Ramirez, and he would most likely have to trade at least 2-4 of them depending on who was traded and on what he decides to do with Buehrle. Depending on the market, you might be able to get the most return out of Ramirez. Trading Sergio right now, on the other hand, makes absolutely no sense because he is exactly the type of player we need right now to keep payroll low, even if he isn't exactly Mariano Rivera I don't think Santos' shelf life will be all that long. Let's see what we can get for him. Appreciate the support for breaking the team up!

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 18, 2011 -> 08:23 PM) I'm not getting what the point is with Marty trying to tear the entire team apart. It's not good enough to win a World Series and it has maxed out the payroll.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 18, 2011 -> 11:26 AM) Interesting, Sox hitters are 7th in the AL in team batting average. 11th in OPS. Sox pitchers are 8th in the AL in team ERA. Now why is Walker the biggest dope who ever lived, and Don Cooper a genius? Because fans are stupid.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 09:40 PM) You're right, KW received zero blame at all for the Hudson/Jackson debacle of a trade...false. I truly don't think anyone would be upset if both KW and Ozzie get let go. What people are worried about is if KW gets let go and Ozzie stays. Williams is a bigger problem than Guillen. Guillen is a problem too.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 09:35 PM) And there are folks who believe that Ozzie has done a good job this year. And there are folks who "can't fault Kenny" for this.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 09:29 PM) As opposed to the ones that state to fire him, when ask.. what manager gets this team into the playoffs.. crickets. There are folks on on here who "believe" that if De Aza and Viciedo replaced Dunn and Rios a month earlier the Sox would still be fighting it out for the divisional lead with the Tigers. Honestly.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) Again, this team has flat out quit. That's what veteran teams do when there is nothing to play for.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 07:53 PM) Or you just keep your top 3 SS in the AL. Saldino is nowhere near big-league ready. Why keep a top 3 SS when the pitching is falling apart. If Saldino has another solid year next year, no reason he isn't up here by mid-2013. Replace Peavy internally with one of the arms you get in return for the players traded.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 06:29 PM) You sign a stopgap when you have somebody on the cusp of breaking though in 1-2 years. . . . Or you sign a stopgap when that is all you an afford. (Tyler Saldino is an interesting SS prospect at Winston-Salem.) AJ, Peavy, and Ohman are off the books after next year. My idea would have the payroll at about $75M at that point. The goal would be to have Peavy (and Ohman) be replaced internally and have money to replace AJ and maybe fill some other holes with the payroll decreasing from $100M in 2012 to roughly $90M in 2013.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) I mean sure, but what do you expect to get back for him? We have nobody in our system that can fill his role immediately and play as well. So unless you can get a good SS back + pitching prospects, trading him would be a bad idea. You're not going to get pitching prospects + a good SS back. Find a stopgap for a couple years a la Ramon Santiago who is a free-agent. Or maybe try Lillibridge there again.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) I mean sure, but what do you expect to get back for him? We have nobody in our system that can fill his role immediately and play as well. So unless you can get a good SS back + pitching prospects, trading him would be a bad idea. Something along the lines of a decent pitching prospect or two.

All these players have have issues, contracts or otherwise, that will limit their trade value and I think the return most here won't be happy with. If they wait longer though the return gets less.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 05:11 PM) Have you seen the shortstop position, especially in the AL? It's pretty damn thin. Ramirez, assuming his production remains the same, combined with his defense, is still a bargain at $6 million per the next two years. I still have no idea why you want to trade Sergio. Worry about SS later. That pitching staff is a ticking time bomb.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) Why he's so adamant on trading Sergio is more surprising. Any trades the White Sox make at this point should be for young, cost/team-controlled talent. That's exactly what Sergio is. Same reason for wanting to trade Ramirez more or less, he may be in demand. He's also only a 60 inning pitcher.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 04:17 PM) I seriously doubt you'd see that much roster turnover in one off-season. Right. I just see this offseason as the time to cur bait on these guys.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 17, 2011 -> 04:53 PM) You do realize that you're getting rid of one of the best SS in the AL by trading Ramirez right? He's cheap for how much he actually does give you. He also might be in demand.