Marty34

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) I kinda agree with what you're saying as long as you're not expecting a quick-fix. Like Balta said, you're probably looking at guys in low A/High A with risk but a ton of upside. So either way, you're going to have a lot of question marks in the rotation next year and in 2013. You'll just have a better long-term inventory. Right. It should have been done last offseason, this is their last best opportunity to fix it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:34 PM) In terms of what needs to be fixed with this team, it is twisted to think that the pitching years down the road is anywhere near the top of the list right now. It is at the top of the list if you want to compete for a World Series in 3-4 years. If you want to muddle around .500 again next year, you are right.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:28 PM) It's not an elite staff, but that doesn't change the fact that it was an above average staff. Above average staff that's getting worse.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) lol. Worried about the pitching in 2015, versus worried about the offense in 2012. Hmm... You are twisting words.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:06 PM) We sure had the living stuffins beat out of us by Detroit in the last two meetings and of course got swept in the last series, but overall I don't think it's really the pitching staff as a whole to blame. Are you doing a knee jerk reaction because of the last two beat downs or the fact both Buerhle and Danks seemed to have crashed? Maybe that 6 man rotation was a good thing? I just think this pitching staff as presently constituted has run its course. It's not an elite staff. In hindsight it was a staff put together predicated on Peavy being a #1 guy. When that didn't happen the rest of the group just wasn't good enough to pick up the slack.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 01:54 PM) So now it's the pitching staff? That's how bad things are for this organization. A byproduct of Williams' gambles. All of a sudden, you look up and say "wow, that pitching staff is on course to be a mess."

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 12:44 PM) I think targeting guys in A-ball is exactly what the Sox need to do. They don't have a whole lot of position openings next year, because they have guys who have performed at some positions and guys who are way overpaid at others. Stock the low levels. Teams are much more willing to part with high ceiling guys if they're down in A ball. They're more likely to implode, but one success can make a franchise for 10 years. Can Sale be a #1 starter in a couple of years? If so maybe they don't have to go after as many of the highest ceiling guys. I have a sneaking suspicion that the A's will put Gonzalez on the market which would further diminish Danks value.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 11:52 AM) That's fine. But you do realize whatever pitching we potentially could acquire for any of the guys you want dealt would not be major-league ready, right? We're not getting a Drew Pomeranz, Matt Moore or Julio Teheran. I suspect you're right, but I don't know what they could get in return. With young pitching you have to have numbers at the very least and that's something the Sox don't have.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 11:43 AM) So I take it you want to deal pitching for younger/cheaper pitching? Yep. Pitching, Quentin, Ramirez.

QUOTE (JorgeFabregas @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 11:54 PM) Floyd's ERA was over 4.5 not too long ago, so it's actually come down if it's now in the 4.3s. Why is it that you apparently think the pitching staff needs more of an overhaul than the position players? The position players are for the most part locked in. They are either young enough to deserve more time or have contracts that will keep them here. Like I said in another thread, the Sox are are a little over one year away from having a rotation of Sale, Floyd, Humber, Stewart. Scary.

QUOTE (mcgrad70 @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 10:51 PM) unhappy enough to force a sale...i can only hope....perhaps to someone who doesn't have to use the profits to eat off of Sure those guys are plentiful in a bad economy. A new owner is going to have to pay off buying the team first. That may eat into "profits", no?

They need guys (and a lot of them) in the pipeline.

If this pitching staff does not get retooled this offseason with every possible resource available the White Sox will be in a lot of trouble going forward. Every tradable asset needs to go in order to fortify the staff for next year and beyond. If our pitching isn't at defcon 1 right now, it soon will be if action isn't taken.

If the Sox keep all of their "valuable" players how are they going to get better?

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 03:58 PM) Marty maybe in 2012 you could wait for me to get to Chitown for a Sox series? I will let you know when I have my vacation plans scheduled Elrock, since you're traveling up here next year, stop by and the beer will be on me.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 02:20 PM) Maybe he's the kind of guy that doesn't recover well from poor defense behind him. Who knows how many of those walks and hits could have been avoided had Pierre played at least average defense in those games. Maybe Sqwert, Thornton not getting anyone out in April was cause for Pierre's bad defense. Can't have your fielders standing around in the cold. Pierre's .342 with runners in scoring position cannot be denied.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 02:11 PM) Maybe you should go back and actually watch some video footage of those games in April. Pierre directly affected Thorton's April by dropping several easy catches that wound up being blown saves. 15 hits, 6 walks in 8.1 April innings for Thornton Sqwert.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) 1) Hibbard conducted a ridiculous amount of research to prove that an 11-22 start is an insurmountable record for turning things around and making the post season. 2) Juan Pierre for the first 6 weeks of the season was literally the worst every day player in all of baseball when taking account various stats. This obviously contributed heavily towards that 11-22 start. 3) Since in #1 above we already established that 11-22 was insurmountable, who cares what he did later in the season? It didn't matter anymore. The damage was done. We continued to trot out the worst player in MLB, digging ourselves in a deeper hole. There's nothing left to prove except that when it no longer mattered, he started putting up better numbers. What about his .342 with runers in scoring position? Look at Thornton's April . . .

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 11:56 PM) I will give props to Marty though, this is a classy thing to do if he ever is given the chance to follow through. Thanks for the kind words, Quinarvy. Anyway, we all want the Sox to win.

I was never a fan of Pierre, but .342 with runners in scoring position is a hell of a year for anyone. Luckily he wasn't dropped.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 05:54 AM) I think it's time to break up the KW / Oz tandem, they are not working together I think Oz is the one to go I do not believe another manager would have this team in first I think KW had the right mix this season, but no one could reliably predicted Dunn's season, Peavy Problems, etc The solution to big contracts is never sign a quality veteran. 10 out, I don't know how a case can be made that the 'talent was there"

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 07:36 PM) There was one Saturday when DET lost and we'd yet to play and could have pulled within 2 games. They only needed to play well enough to make up 3-4 games at that time. 9 wasn't the issue until recently...when DET decided to play like the most dangerous team in the playoffs. So thats a no, they were not enough to make up 9.5 games.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 07:30 PM) Moneyball has zero or nothing to do with OBP. Those teams won because of Hudson/Mulder/Zito and then enough offense with guys like Giambi, Chavez and Tejada sprinkled in there. They filled out their last 25% of the roster with those Dan Johnson/Hatteberg/Swisher types (high OBP at 1B/LF/RF/DH)....but the whole idea of it as being an area where they exploited this concept to build some kind of replicable dynasty is a complete joke. Moneyball should have been about the Twins....but Ryan over there was never interesting or compelling or egomaniacal enough to write about. Moneyball is all about SABRmetrics. the SABRmetric way of puting teams together was wildly successful during the steroid era, wonder if there is any correlation?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 01:38 PM) That's purely assumption. You, I, or anybody has no idea what would've occurred had they acted sooner. You seem partial to SABRmetrics, do De Aza and Viciedo make up 9.5 games from June on?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) Just so you know guys, sabermetrics loved Juan Pierre at one point in his career. But oh no, it's definitely jumping the shark! Explain Moneyball the movie.